This is an archive of past discussions about New Imperialism. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
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Talk:New Imperialism/archive 1
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Talk:New Imperialism/archive 6 (You are here.)
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Talk:New Imperialism/Linking to the alternative version from the top of the article
Talk:New Imperialism/archive 10
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Why does 172 keep removing the text here? Much of this was just posted yesterday, and the comments by erzengel (back in April) are certainly relevant. Pizza Puzzle
I'm placing it in this archive, not removing it. 172
Pizza Puzzle: anyone is free to archive talk. You can find the latest messages above in archive 6. This time I'm going to protect the page. 172
Pizza Puzzle, banned under the name Vera Cruz for his conduct on this page, is messing up the proper layout and format, gradually deconstructing this article in a series of so-called "minor edits." To avoid the Vera Cruz/New Imperialism debacle, well-chronicled on the mailing list and the talk page, this page will be protected. 172
Don't be fooled by Pizza Puzzle's misleading claims that he is not Vera Cruz. Please read this message, from Jtdril on the Vera/Pizza relation:
Yes, 172, both you and Jtdirl think Pizza Puzzle is Lir, but that doesn't necessarily make it so, and it certainly doesn't make protecting pages that Pizza Puzzle (whoever he may be) makes perfectly good edits to acceptable. --Camembert
It's so frustrating that each time someone deals with this user under any name some naïve; well-intentioned user has to jump in play his games. Take a look at the talk archive. You'll see the disaster that I'm striving to prevent preemptively. He starts with a series of "minor edits" and before you know it he has hijacked the article. This article has been a personal obsession for this user for over half a year. It is the one that got him banned under the name Vera Cruz. His only objective is to annoy and humiliate me. Please, please, take a look at this article's history and you'd see that I’m taking the only measures possible to avert a disaster. 172
hijacking...preemption...*cough* Pizza Puzzle
That was just the existing format. This can be fixed later.
I found this good quotation by a very trusted, respected contributor about Vera Cruz's conduct on New Imperialism. This will explain my sentiments:
"172, I don't think I can be much help. I cannot reason with VC once he takes it into her head to start "improving" an article with a thousand cuts and changes any more than you can. I don't mean that the task is difficult, I mean that the task, so far as I can tell, is impossible. It makes no real difference if there are dozens of other contributors bringing evidence and reasoned argument to the task: once VC has decided to "improve" an article it just becomes a mindless edit war until she either gets her way or makes a tactical withdrawl in order to concentrate on "improving" something else for a while. Sometimes, these really are improvements. I'm not sure if this is evidence of an intermittent desire to contribute useful information; a camouflage tactic for the real intent; or simply examples of the usual random changes which just happen to be useful ones.
The only two things you can do, so far as I can see, are (a) resign yourself to an eternity of filling up the Wiki database with endless reversions when you could be doing something productive, or (b) on VC's arrival, give up on whatever article she is infesting and go elsewhere." User:172
I am going to leave this page for an hour and have several cups of tea. I hope things will have calmed down when I return. --Camembert
um - this page is getting kinda long, but I dont think archiving is the right idea since the last half of this is basically 172 arguing that Im a terrorist. Perhaps we can move all that to Pizza Puzzle is a Terrorist so that the actual discussion is visible? Pizza Puzzle
This article got you banned under the name Vera Cruz. Over time, it will get you banned under the name Pizza Puzzle. 172
To Pizza Puzzle: Good ahead, create your own page on New Imperialism/temp and see how many Wikipedians agree with you. If you have enough supporter, then no one can stop you from modifying the main article. If you believe that you are right but most Wikipedians don't agree with you, then you should just stay away from the article and regret that nobody agrees with you. That's how democracy works. Don't let edit wars changed into the source of hate. Wshun
I can create temp pages all day long and nobody will ever see them. Pizza Puzzle
The following was moved from the Wikipedia:Village pump
User:127 protected Talk:New Imperialism, apparently to prevent me from discussing the page with other users. He also moved a huge section of text written yesterday (and today) to an "archive", the entire page he moved was nothing but discussion regarding potentional changes to "his" page; something he apparently doesnt want happening. Pizza Puzzle
Now he just protected New Imperialism because I moved a "see also" out of the middle of nowhere and put it somewhere visible. Is this guy the owner of the site or something, I don't think he likes me. Pizza Puzzle
I suggest we create a formal mechanism to declare an edit war and rules to control it. We ban those who disregard the rules. When there is an edit war, each side should create its version like New Imperialism/temp1 and New Imperialism/temp2 and let others to choose which one is better-through a voting system maybe. No matter what the voting result is, the ones involving in the edit war should not start the war again unless they get new ideas. During the edit war, the article may be protected--not because we want to ban somebody from modify it, but because we don't want the edit war affecting the general public. Of course, we have to choose a mediator acceptable to both sides to oversee the edit war. Wshun
Its a good idea except that one user will leave his article at New Imperialism and the other will be forced to the temp page where they will feel marginalized and left out. Pizza Puzzle
Yes, but what do u do when people refuse to discuss? Or when they insist that discussion must continue indefinitely? Pizza Puzzle
Each side with its own version is an awful system, but it is better than an ongoing edit war which may change into nonsense hatre. To win an edit war, one may need continuously modifying its own version to be plausible to most wikipedians. I believe naively that the winning version would be as NPOV as possible. Do not underestimate the power of voting. Wshun
Both sides doing alternative versions is the worst possible solution. The problem here is that we have an article that is far too big (50K!!!!) and with a bad history of edit wars, some of whom involved both protagonists and which got one banned the last time. Each side sees not merely what is happening now but is influenced by the past, seeing edits now as part of an ungoing war. 172 was wrong to protect the page, but Pizza Puzzle is hardly contributing to a good working environment by plonking large chunks of text onto 172's talk page and by provocatively implying a simple archiving of a talk page was censorship. It is in PP own interest to avoid a rerun of past battles that caused so much bad blood last time. FearÉIREANN 01:35 23 Jul 2003 (UTC)
... Pizza Puzzle
End of content moved from village pump