Talk:North Macedonia/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions about North Macedonia. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Talk:Republic of Macedonia/Archive1, Talk:Republic of Macedonia/Archive3

Oh, so you're admitting that they call themselves the "Republic of Macedonia" now. Good. --Jiang

Ok that just proves you are a troll and nothing more. There is not a single place in my text that I denied they call themselves that. My main objection comes from the PoV that one cannot just call themselves whatever they wish ignoring everyone else. I see you didn't like it much when I called myself Jiang. Why is that? How is what I did different to what FYROM is trying to do? Why should Macedonia be indiferent to what FYROM decides to call itself? Finally, It has been explained to you, that the term FYROM is not disputed, yet the term Macedonia is. Regardless, you keep using the disputed term in places where the undisputed one can be used without causing any confusion. Why do you insist doing it? You are really just changing it without giving any valid reason. That's why I call you a troll. There can be no other reason behind what you are doing, other than craving for attention. Since I am new to this I will need to ask others how people deal with things like that, but I assure you your fun will be over soon. 193.195.0.101 22:29, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

FWIW, I'm of Greek heritage and find the current article to be acceptable. The main issue is that many Greeks are unhappy with the term Macedonia being used by non-Greeks in any context, as they see it as an attempt to rewrite history as the "Macedonians" attempt to co-opt Greek history and make it their own (not a completely unfounded fear, as there are some Republic of Macedonia nationalists who claim that Alexander the Great spoke a Slavic language that they term "Macedonian"—despite the fact that no Slavs immigrated to the region until centuries later and overwhelming historical evidence that he spoke Greek). However, it is a fact that this group of people has chosen the name "Macedonians" for themselves. Whether that choice is justifiable or not, it would be unacceptably POV for us to say that their use of the name is illegitimate. All we can do is mention that there are others who think that choice is illegitimate.

As far as FYROM goes, it's really kind of a silly compromise. Nobody on either side particularly likes it (the Republic of Macedonia prefers that name, and Greece would prefer they pick a name that doesn't include the word "Macedonia" at all), and it's kind of odd to refer to a country in terms of what it used to be. Many Greeks solve this by calling the country Skopje, after its capital (many maps published in Greece will show the northern neighbors of Greece as being "Albania, Skopje, and Bulgaria"), but obviously we cannot use that solution.

That's odd. You accept calling it "Republic of Macedonia" Which is the name one side is using, but not "Skoje" which is what the other side does. This onesided approach is what probably infuriates me more. Way to be taking sides... 193.195.0.102

So in summary I'm fine with the current way we handle it: mention their constitutional name first, but mention up front that this name is controversial. It will irk some "Macedonians" who would prefer we use their name unqualifiedly (or relegate mention of the dispute to some less prominent portion of the article), and it will irk some Greeks who would prefer we don't "allow" them to use the name, but there's no solution that will satisfy everyone. --Delirium 11:28, Nov 13, 2003 (UTC)

Of course there is a solution. Use the name both states agreed with and mention that in "FYROM" they use "ROM" as their name but in Greece they use "Skopje". In the end one of those names will prevail. It has to. Until then I can't see why this Encyclopedia needs to take sides. As I have said numerous times, no-one has the right to call themselves whatever they like. I have signed some articles here under different names that I assumed just for the purpose of showing how chaotic and misleading irresponsible naming can be. Funny how everyone proetsed me calling myself "Jiang-with-a-dot" but have no problem with FYROM calling itself whatever it likes regardless if another state considers it (and other states agreed with it) identity theft. I hope at last someone can see the reason in this. 193.195.0.102

The "Macedonians are not the Serbs and the Bulgars in FYROM!! The Macedonians are Greek People for 3000 years !! ---Vergina 12:05, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I protected this page because i dont have the energy or mental strength to keep reverting polemic versions done by several users including one childish enough to name himself Jiang-with-a-dot. Aparently discussion is going nowhere so i decided for this. Muriel 17:28, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Could you enlighten everyone WHY you had to revert the page back? The last version was not offensive to anyone. The current version is offensive to Greece. I thought you had to have some idea on the topic before you edit a page, surely. You told me you had no clue about the subgect or the facts. I would expect an admin to abide by the rules and show less bias towards users than anybody else. You are not doing that. 193.195.0.102

Now let's also see something interesting from the wikipedia rules:

• "Admins should not protect pages when they have been involved in the edit war in question (either by actively editing the page or by expressing strong opinions on the talk page). Admin powers are not editor privileges - admins should only act as servants to the user community at large. If you are an admin and you want a page in an edit war in which you are somehow involved to be protected, you should contact another admin and ask them to protect the page for you."

Way to go for breaking every single one of those rules, Muriel Gottrop. 193.195.0.101 17:58, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)