Talk:Persea palustris

Persea palustris was nominated as a Natural sciences good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (January 11, 2023). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Plants Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Plants, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of plants and botany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PlantsWikipedia:WikiProject PlantsTemplate:WikiProject Plantsplant articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

This review is transcluded from Talk:Persea palustris/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Eewilson (talk · contribs) 01:03, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Fail because nominator was unable to continue with the work; IRL constraints (see notes at the bottom). Encourage a renomination after the initial changes suggested below are made. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 20:17, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

• My review will be focused on GA and good plants article criteria, which are not contradictory. Certain sections and information are required content for a good plants article (which is part of "coverage" as required for GA criteria), yet are not as comprehensive as what would be for a featured plants article. If you do think I get carried away with what is covered here, let me know and I can rethink. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 03:44, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• First usage of a measurement should always be spelled out (both in and out measurements). – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 03:44, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The template uses UK spelling by default, while this article is written in US English. I think most readers know what "m" stands for.
    • {{Convert}} will take |sp=us to change use US spelling. |abbr=off, |abbr=in, and |abbr=out can be used depending on which have already been spelled out. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 04:04, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      • I made the Convert changes. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 20:54, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Hint for Plants articles, links for various sites are in the taxonbar at the bottom. You can click on the link next to POWO to get to Plants of the World Online page for the species and find synonyms, infraspecies, range map, etc. Other links will take you to other sources.
• See the standard Flora of North America entry for this species at http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=233500902. It may have additional information. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 04:12, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• I keep forgetting to mention this, and you probably already know this. Sources for older publications with free access include https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/, https://archive.org/, https://books.google.com/, some free on https://www.jstor.org/ if you create an account you can get up to 100 a month depending on the article, https://www.researchgate.net/search/publication if an author has uploaded it. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 09:22, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• See {{Speciesbox}} if you need explanation, or ask.
• Needs map. If making a range or distribution map isn't something you feel comfortable with or you don't know anyone who can help, go here: Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Map workshop.
  • Will work on.
• Where did you source the list of synonyms? Are those all the synonyms? POWO is probably the best, most up to date site for these.
  • It is explained in the body, and yes, those are all the synonyms.
    • ITIS uses sources that are not up to date for recognized synonyms. Plants of the World Online (POWO) and Catalogue of Life (COL) are the latest. POWO is easiest to cite using template {{Cite POWO}}. Please use one of those for the accepted infraspecies and synonyms. If you wish to discuss out of date sources in the body, you can do that as well, but that's not really something I'd look for in a Taxonomy section for a GA, just for a FA and would be a part of a significant taxonomic history write-up. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 04:14, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Needs |synonyms_ref= once you get those.
  • I didn't think it did as long as the information is supported and cited in the main text, which it is.
    • Yes, reference it there. Then for a higher-status article like GA, those are elaborated on in the Taxonomy section. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 04:14, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Needs status (conservation information) and ref; usually North American taxa are in Nature Serve Explorer. Some are also in the IUCN Red List. If this species is in both, there is an option for two statuses. Taxonbar will have the links.
  • I had already checked IUCN and there was nothing, but I found it for NatureServe.  Done
    • Got it. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 04:14, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Continue later. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 04:12, 6 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the comments. I should've added that I'm quite familiar already with most of this general proccess from my work on animal articles, which are not terribly different overall, so no need to worry about overwhelming me. An anonymous username, not my real name 01:25, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Very good. I just got sleepy and had to stop. Been having the hardest time staying awake this week. But thank you for letting me know that. I did make the headers so you'd know more is coming. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 04:14, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Clarify this sentence: "Mature leaves are green, paler on their undersides, which have prominent brownish or reddish brown hairs." Unclear if only the undersides have the hairs or both sides, although according to the sentence, it's only the undersides, but I just want to make sure. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 20:59, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Lead may need some expansion. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 20:59, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• I have uploaded 17 free images from iNaturalist for this species. There are some good ones that could be used. More illustration here and possibly other areas (some laurel wilt is shown) of the article would be beneficial. A couple show leaf galls. One good one of the fruit. Some bud close-ups. Bark. Etc. If you desire a specific image or modification let me know. It's one of the things I do... find images and crop/resize/etc. Not an expert, but it's a good break from typing. See https://commons.wikimedia.orgview_html.php?sq=Envato&lang=en&q=Category:Persea_palustris. There were a few images of beetle holes and frass that were free, but they were not focused so unusable. I didn't check Flickr but could.
• Needs Chromosome count – probably in FNA.
• Is it evergreen? – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 09:31, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• "The leaves can be lanceolate or long-elliptic, medium to dark green on their uppersides, with paler undersides, which are covered in distinctive brownish hairs." Can you reword a bit? It's not clear if both sides have the brownish hairs or just the abaxial side. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 20:48, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• I did the Convert changes. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 20:48, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• See comments in Speciesbox section regarding synonyms and other updated taxonomy.
• Michaux's type specimen?
  • Where was it from and who collected it? This is either in his protologue, IPNI, and/or JSTOR. If it's not in one of those three, then collector undocumented.... or something like that.
  • Where is the holotype now? (in Gray Herbarium) It may be findable in GBIF or JSTOR. (it is) It is not free to view the holotype image on JSTOR, but it is free to view the information they have about the holotype.
    • GBIF: https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/1998726741; free to view and possibly free to download and use depending on the license (optional thing I try to do, but not required)
    • JSTOR: https://plants.jstor.org/stable/10.5555/al.ap.specimen.gh00042147
  • Is it available for viewing online in a virtual herbarium?
• For botanists, add a couple of words in front of each first use of the name to explain who they are (e.g., French botanist François André Michaux).
• "and then reassigned to Laurus carolinensis var. pubescens by [German–American botanist] Frederick Traugott Pursh." When and why? For others, too, if the when and/or why hasn't been mentioned.
• Etymology needed (sometimes a subsection here is good). Wikipedia:WikiProject Plants/Template#Etymology lists sources.

– Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 09:23, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• I think this looks good. Missing is whether it is native or endemic.
• Some additional habitat info may be in FNA here: http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=1&taxon_id=233500902.
• Also see Weakley available here: https://fsus.ncbg.unc.edu/show-taxon-detail.php?taxonid=350 and downloadable for free in a huge PDF (as Tamala palustris, but still has species info, including that it's native).

• Move the laurel wilt/ambrosia beetle stuff up here. Then, in the conservation section, that can be discussed again in a different way. See below.
• This section can also include pollinators, fruit-eaters, lepidoptera, how other animals use the tree, etc.

• Good info in this section about laurel wilt. There is an Ecology section that can contain this instead (see above), as it is a part of how it and the environment interact. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Plants/Template Ecology section for elaboration.
• Here, discuss how laurel wilt (via the invasive ambrosia beetle) has affected the status of the species. For example, NatureServe has the species as critically endangered in Maryland, and possibly extirpated in Delaware. Scrolling on down on the NatureServe page, there is elaboration on the threats.
• Also state that the global status was last reviewed by NS in 1996, so the global status isn't going to be representative of the status of the species as a whole today.
• NS has no data on most of the southern states figured into the global status, which should be mentioned here as well. (So, yes, we use the status from NS/IUCN or wherever in the speciesbox (as I had said), but here we often need elaboration if that doesn't represent the true status because it's decades out of date, as in this species.)
• There is no Cite NS template (I've thought about trying to make one but that's as far as it's gotten).

• What is the tree used for?
  • Wood, bark, leaves, etc.
• Is there a medicinal use? Have Indigenous Americans used it? (yes) Here, I halp: http://naeb.brit.org/uses/search/?string=Persea+palustris.
• Gardening goes here. Is it used in gardens? I saw the NC Extension page has some growing and gardening information, so I assume it is.

– Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 05:39, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• You can cite however you see fit as long as it meets the GA requirements and is consistent within the article, but I have some templates I have filled in for pasting for NS and other sources if you are interested. No harm if you don't want them.

– Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 05:19, 7 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@An anonymous username, not my real name: It has been about 8 days since you have worked on the article or responded to any comments. Is it your intent to continue with this GAN? – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 16:07, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've been quite busy in real life, and I'm afraid I may not be able to complete the review. I'll see what happens in the next few days. An anonymous username, not my real name 16:42, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@An anonymous username, not my real name: I can mark it on hold pending changes if you wish. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 04:41, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Eewilson, I've become a little less busy, but I'm going to have to take another small break soon, so I think it would be best to let this article go. You gave a very thorough review and I sincerely regret having to do this. An anonymous username, not my real name 00:00, 28 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@An anonymous username, not my real name: I completely understand, really! I have asked on the main GAN talk page if it's allowed to have a new "nominator". I'll see what they say. Don't sweat it and take care of yourself. You did a lot of work and made a lot of nominations this fall, and if life steps in the way, that can throw Wikiwork for a loop! – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 08:16, 29 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@An anonymous username, not my real name: I'm getting ready to close this but thought I'd check once more to see if you have had time free up to work on it. If not, that's perfectly fine and no harm, no foul. I'll give it another 24 hours to see if you want to pick it back up. – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 17:36, 10 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I might be able to work further, but my schedule's still been a little turbulent, so I think closing would be the best path. An anonymous username, not my real name 12:11, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, will do! Thank you for all you do. :) – Elizabeth (Eewilson) (tag or ping me) (talk) 20:08, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]