- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 07:59, 29 April 2022 (UTC)
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Daisy Wood Hildreth
... that "The College Chimes" by Daisy Wood Hildreth was chosen by the Iowa State College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts in Ames, Iowa, as their alumni song?Source: Seattle and Environs, 1852-1924, Volume 1- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Joining Forces
- Comment: The current alumni song is Bells of Iowa State so the full name of the college in the past should be used instead of Iowa State University.
Created by SL93 (talk). Self-nominated at 15:31, 8 April 2022 (UTC).
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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| Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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| Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation |
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| QPQ: Done. |
Overall: 
Article meets eligibility criteria i.e. newness and length. It is a tad on the shorter side and if possible, attempts should be made to expand the article. However, at the current size, the article does meet eligibility criteria for DYK. Article is well sourced. However, I would want the nominator to look at source #1 to see if a link can be provided to an online archive of the newspaper obituary. I am assuming that the year of birth and year of death is sourced to that obituary. Earwig's Copyvio detector shows no issues. Trying to use the Google Books result to validate the hook, I am not able to get to the text. Requesting the nominator for additional assistance here. Will defer to the nominator on the hook's interestingness. However, had two minor points to note -- a) it might be worth clarifying "composer" ahead of Daisy Wood Hildreth and b) might be worth dropping Ames, Iowa in the interest of brevity. So, the revised hook would be ALT1: ... that "The College Chimes" by American composer Daisy Wood Hildreth was chosen by the Iowa State College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts as their alumni song? QPQ is done. Passing the nomination back to the nominator. Good luck. Ktin (talk) 22:20, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
- Ktin I'm not sure if the there is an online archive. I received the obituary via email from SusunW. The Google Book text says, "Many honors have found their way to Daisy Wood Hildreth, not the least of which was the winning of the prize offered by the Iowa State College for Agriculture and Mechanical Arts at Ames, Iowa, for an appropriate alumni song. "College Chimes", music by Daisy Wood Hildreth, words by Mrs. Harvey L. Glenn, of Seattle, won the prize, and the song has been sung ever since at all the alumni reunions." The Archive.org source beside the reference in the article is just to show that the book was missing the word "The" from the title. I'm fine with the rewording. SL93 (talk) 22:45, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
- @SL93: Thank you for the quick turn-around. Couple of questions -- a) please can you confirm that the obituary confirms the year of birth and year of death as 1879 and 1969 respectively? b) Am I to read the Google Books text to understand that DWH won a prize from the ISCAMA for 'an' alumni song? Is there a notion of "the" alumni song? I am assuming that the song just became "the" alumni song as written in the hook. Thanks. Ktin (talk) 22:54, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
- Ktin It was "the" alumni song after it won the competition. The obituary says she died on July 30, 1969 at age 89. That would meant that she was born in either 1879 or 1880. I will clarify both in the article now. SL93 (talk) 22:58, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
- ALT1: ... that "The College Chimes" by American composer Daisy Wood Hildreth was chosen by the Iowa State College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts as their alumni song?
- Sounds good. Marking ALT1 approved. Striking ALT0 for avoidance of doubt. Ktin (talk) 23:07, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
- Ktin It was "the" alumni song after it won the competition. The obituary says she died on July 30, 1969 at age 89. That would meant that she was born in either 1879 or 1880. I will clarify both in the article now. SL93 (talk) 22:58, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
- @SL93: Thank you for the quick turn-around. Couple of questions -- a) please can you confirm that the obituary confirms the year of birth and year of death as 1879 and 1969 respectively? b) Am I to read the Google Books text to understand that DWH won a prize from the ISCAMA for 'an' alumni song? Is there a notion of "the" alumni song? I am assuming that the song just became "the" alumni song as written in the hook. Thanks. Ktin (talk) 22:54, 9 April 2022 (UTC)
- I think the title is "The College Chimes". Here are the (likely) lyrics[1]. That was published in 1921 and a new song was picked in 1931 from another competition.[2] StrayBolt (talk) 19:41, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
The on-line obituaries (there are 2: July 31st gives the death date and August 1 confirms birth as being in 1879 — actual 17 December 1879 per due diligence search confirming other information in sources — are available from subscription to Genealogy Bank. I noted the date of appearance of the obituary in Family Search (accessible by free subscription) and paid for a one month subscription to the Genealogy Bank to acquire the clippings of the obits I sent to SL93 from the Seattle Daily Times. If you want to see the obits, I'm happy to e-mail if you send me an e-mail via my wikipage. SusunW (talk) 04:33, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- SusunW I didn't see 1879 specifically mentioned in either one. SL93 (talk) 15:37, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- SL93 The 1 August 1969 obit says she was 89. Thus born in 1879 or 1880; however, the birth record clearly shows when she was born. Being born in December, she would have been 89 years old when she died in July, no conclusion necessary, it's math. The birth record is a primary source, but it is not unreliable as it is a specific document created by a government entity to record an event. They would have no reason to fabricate the information contained therein and obviously have no stake in promoting her or false information about her. It is not OR to cite information as given in a primary source, but it would be if you draw conclusions from the source. Simply repeating the birth date requires no conclusion or analysis. Due diligence, i.e. evaluating information in various sources to confirm that they are for the correct person, is also not OR. In fact, I would argue it is a required process in gathering sources for any article to confirm that the information is for a specific person and not a name same. SusunW (talk) 15:57, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- SusunW I can't cite it because I don't have a subscription. SL93 (talk) 16:08, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- SL93 Done. (Subscription is free, only requires you to sign up. I put the information in the "quote" part of the citation if you want to use any of the other information. SusunW (talk) 16:29, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- theleekycauldron Can I get your thoughts on using Familysearch to reference parts of the article? The reliable sources noticeboard discussions makes it seem that it's an unreliable source. I'm thinking of reverting that content. SL93 (talk) 22:31, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- SL93: well, FamilySearch is classified as generally unreliable at WP:RSP; but if you're reasonably certain that you're relying on an authentic primary-source document and not user-generated content, it should be as good as any other primary sourcing for DYK purposes. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 22:34, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- theleekycauldron I reverted it. I think it's better to be safe than sorry. I might feel different if it wasn't for DYK. SL93 (talk) 22:36, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- SL93: well, FamilySearch is classified as generally unreliable at WP:RSP; but if you're reasonably certain that you're relying on an authentic primary-source document and not user-generated content, it should be as good as any other primary sourcing for DYK purposes. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 22:34, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- theleekycauldron Can I get your thoughts on using Familysearch to reference parts of the article? The reliable sources noticeboard discussions makes it seem that it's an unreliable source. I'm thinking of reverting that content. SL93 (talk) 22:31, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- SL93 Done. (Subscription is free, only requires you to sign up. I put the information in the "quote" part of the citation if you want to use any of the other information. SusunW (talk) 16:29, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- SusunW I can't cite it because I don't have a subscription. SL93 (talk) 16:08, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- Comment: Clarifying to promoters that ALT1 is the approved hook. ... that "The College Chimes" by American composer Daisy Wood Hildreth was chosen by the Iowa State College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts as their alumni song? SL93 (talk) 06:13, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
- SL93 The 1 August 1969 obit says she was 89. Thus born in 1879 or 1880; however, the birth record clearly shows when she was born. Being born in December, she would have been 89 years old when she died in July, no conclusion necessary, it's math. The birth record is a primary source, but it is not unreliable as it is a specific document created by a government entity to record an event. They would have no reason to fabricate the information contained therein and obviously have no stake in promoting her or false information about her. It is not OR to cite information as given in a primary source, but it would be if you draw conclusions from the source. Simply repeating the birth date requires no conclusion or analysis. Due diligence, i.e. evaluating information in various sources to confirm that they are for the correct person, is also not OR. In fact, I would argue it is a required process in gathering sources for any article to confirm that the information is for a specific person and not a name same. SusunW (talk) 15:57, 10 April 2022 (UTC)
- Kavyansh.Singh Do you have any idea why this would be skipped over by promoters as the oldest biography with no image? It seems that there is an issue and that no one is telling me what that issue is. SL93 (talk) 11:15, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
- @SL93: Responding to a talk page message: The wall of text above made me believe that there was a concern with this hook that hasn't been resolved yet. I suggest that the reviewer or another editor re-add the green tick with a message outlining the ALTs that have been approved. Z1720 (talk) 12:07, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) The issue here, honestly, is not with the article but with the length of this discussion. When promoting, each prep-set builder is expected to read the discussion and the article, and it is natural for people to skip long entries. But let me clarify that there is nothing in general wrong with long discussions or this nomination/article. Just that people tend to skip it. I'll see what I can do. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 12:09, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
I will just add it here. ALT1 is the approved hook. ... that "The College Chimes" by American composer Daisy Wood Hildreth was chosen by the Iowa State College of Agriculture and Mechanic Arts as their alumni song? SL93 (talk) 00:28, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
Promoting ALT1, approved by Ktin in this edit, to Prep 7 – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 07:59, 29 April 2022 (UTC)