- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by PrimalMustelid talk 02:13, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
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No Easy Answers
- ... that students at Columbine High School joked in 1998 their school would be "next" for a mass shooting, according to a book by a friend of the killers? Source: Brown, Brooks; Merritt, Rob (2002). "Suburban Life". No Easy Answers: The Truth Behind Death at Columbine. New York, New York: Lantern Books. pp. 97–98. ISBN 978-1-59056-031-0.
Moved to mainspace by Vaticidalprophet (talk). Self-nominated at 11:58, 16 October 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/No Easy Answers; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.
The article fails the WP:DYKNEW criterion, because it was created more than seven days ago on 14 September 2023 and not expanded fivefold in the last seven days before this DYK nomination (or otherwise eligible).- I missed that the article was moved from the Draft namespace on 16 October 2023, which means that the article is eligible, I will continue my review of this nomination and post it here soon. – Editør (talk) 11:57, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
The boldlinked article is new enough and long enough. I believe that the lead section of the boldlinked article is repetitive and goes into too much detail, I think that it could be reduced to two or three paragraphs, so this should probably be improved first, but otherwise the article has no apparent major issues. The hook is cited and supported by the source. And the QPQ has been done. I propose ALT1 with a different wording of the hook, to include an explicit reference to the massacre to better explain the context and significance of the hook and to include the title of the book that this nomination is about. – Editør (talk) 13:10, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
- ALT1: ... that a year before the Columbine High School massacre in 1999, students at Columbine High School joked that their school would be next for a mass shooting according to the book No Easy Answers?
- Thanks for the review. I'll trim the lead a little, though I don't see it going to 2-3 paragraphs -- there's four disparate things to cover here -- and at DYK level this isn't an eligibility issue anyway. (I agree it's a bit overlong, though, so I'm doing so nonetheless.) I was intentionally avoiding the book title as the bold link, because the fact Brown was specifically Harris and Klebold's friend is the big claim here and the thing worth bolding. (Having promoted a few hundred DYK hooks, I'm confident a hook that didn't bold that part would redirect most views to the Columbine massacre rather than to the bold article.) How do you feel about...
- ALT2: ... that a year before the Columbine High School massacre, students at the school joked that they would be "next" for a mass shooting, according to a book by a friend of the killers?
- I think this seems like a decent compromise. Vaticidalprophet 17:47, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for the review. I'll trim the lead a little, though I don't see it going to 2-3 paragraphs -- there's four disparate things to cover here -- and at DYK level this isn't an eligibility issue anyway. (I agree it's a bit overlong, though, so I'm doing so nonetheless.) I was intentionally avoiding the book title as the bold link, because the fact Brown was specifically Harris and Klebold's friend is the big claim here and the thing worth bolding. (Having promoted a few hundred DYK hooks, I'm confident a hook that didn't bold that part would redirect most views to the Columbine massacre rather than to the bold article.) How do you feel about...
- ALT1: ... that a year before the Columbine High School massacre in 1999, students at Columbine High School joked that their school would be next for a mass shooting according to the book No Easy Answers?
Or even, while we're here...
- ALT3: ... that according to a book by a friend of the Columbine shooters, students at Columbine High School would joke that their school was "next" for a mass shooting?
Vaticidalprophet 17:48, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
- The word 'next' doesn't require quotation marks in the hook, since you're paraphrasing and it doesn't require emphasis. I think you shouldn't assume that the reader is familiar with the Columbine High School massacre, so the connections between the different elements of the hook (like students, school, massacre, and book) should be made explicit. What about:
- ALT4: ... that according to the book No Easy Answers, students at Columbine High School joked about a mass shooting at their school a year before the massacre happened there?
- But I also see your point about the book and clicking on the link. Can you come up with an entirely different hook that puts the book front and center? – Editør (talk) 19:31, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
Hi! Vati asked me to chime in here, although he doesn't know what I'm going to say as I write this. The lead of Columbine High School massacre says that it's most commonly referred to as "Columbine", so I think we're good on that front – plus, a short hook with the boldlink close to the front is best. I think ALT3 is the best we've got so far – the book title doesn't really add that much to the hook, and if we add it, we have to add the context in separately. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 02:01, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- Yeah, I asked Leek for a neutral third option because I wasn't sure where this was going/how best to resolve it. Thanks for both your thoughts so far. (I also think from the performance of the most recent hook to mention Columbine that it's a subject we can reasonably assume some pre-knowledge of.) Vaticidalprophet 02:12, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
The use of "Columbine" for the massacre in the article on the massacre is unsourced, but it was not recently added so I see no immediate problem here. I'm passing the hook of ALT3 without the unnecessary quotation marks, which is ALT5. – Editør (talk) 08:17, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
- ALT5: ... that according to a book by a friend of the Columbine shooters, students at Columbine High School would joke that their school was next for a mass shooting?
