RDOlivaw (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I do not know user Unprovoked. This is my only account. I edit through a University proxy in Grenoble, and using city wi-fi (in parks here) as I do not yet have internet in my new flat. I am currently editing from a Nottingham University proxy as I am visiting there. Please unblock me and the IP address at Nottingham; feel free to block Unprovoked though I have no idea who they are and I have no access to that account. I am also not Dr88, although I assume it must be someone also in Grenoble. They say they work for the CEA whereas I work at the INPG for CNRS. If he wants to defend himself or ask for an unblock he can, but I'm not going to defend him. All my edits to the mainspace have been made in good faith, and I will avoid Homeopathy for the a while if that's any help. I did get rather involved with Dana Ullman, but he did try and bait me a number of times. I have emailed LaraLove earlier today and have not yet received a reply (I assume she is away or busy). Basically this is my main account, please feel free to block the others and they can defend themselves (although I broadly supported Dr88s main space edits, I have no knowledge of Unprovoked) and please unblock the proxy through which I am editing as this is a tempoary access point for me and I feel bad for the people here that will use the proxy from tomorrow for their work
Decline reason:
there is not enough evidence to support unblocking at this time. — slakr\ talk / 02:46, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
- For the admin who reviews this, please first talk to User:Thatcher or User:Deskana. Checkuser evidence shows that this user and user User:DrEightyEight are connected to the account User:Unprovoked and on February 1, 2008 they edited from the same IP address, alternating, in a matter of minutes which puts them on the same computer. Lara❤Love 18:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Please explain how you and DrEightyEight edited from the same IP within minutes of each other. --Deskana (talk) 18:51, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- See [1] Note descr: Proxad / Free SAS. descr: Static IP address (Freebox). To the best of my knowledge the IP is for Freebox: the modem has the static IP -- multiple computers can use the modem and will show the same IP. •Jim62sch•dissera! 21:40, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- That doesn't account for all the details, which is why I invited comment from RDOlivaw. --Deskana (talk) 23:08, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- In the interim, LaraLove seems to have indefblocked one or two university networds, "Autoblock any IP addresses used". Regarding details, have diffs of alleged disruption been made public? My interactions with RDOlivaw found him constructive and helpful. Perhaps it should be noted that he made useful edits to Charles Darwin in the aftermath of POV pushing by Dana Ullman – is this a spin off from homeopathy arguments? .. dave souza, talk 23:28, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- That doesn't account for all the details, which is why I invited comment from RDOlivaw. --Deskana (talk) 23:08, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- See [1] Note descr: Proxad / Free SAS. descr: Static IP address (Freebox). To the best of my knowledge the IP is for Freebox: the modem has the static IP -- multiple computers can use the modem and will show the same IP. •Jim62sch•dissera! 21:40, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
- Please explain how you and DrEightyEight edited from the same IP within minutes of each other. --Deskana (talk) 18:51, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Calling someone a POV-pusher is considered offensive unless it can be properly referenced. I made ONE edit in the article on Charles Darwin, and I provided NPOV references to my addition directly from Darwin's letters. Then, all of my other contributions were on the Talk pages. As it turns out, Unprovoked reversed my addition to the article, and Dr88 and HDOlivaw provided additional comments against my contribution. If these 3 people are the same person, my contributions to wikipedia has suffered from this gang of one. When it seemed that I was out-numbered, I respectfully stepped away. I have been a gentleman editor here...not a POV-pusher. I wish Dave Souza would acknowledge the strong anti-homeopathy bias that he has had in making his above statement and in vast majority of his edits. Dana Ullman Talk 00:57, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- Dana, the pov pushing I was referring to was on talk:Charles Darwin, and you're right that you only made one edit to the article. That introduced original research unsupported by a detailed examination of secondary sources and the primary sources you used. Similarly, RDOlivaw only edited the talk page. Your allegations of an anti-homeopathy bias are unfounded. .. dave souza, talk 08:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- The underlying IP is not blocked. I still eagerly await the response of RDOlivaw to the question that I asked. --Deskana (talk) 03:54, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- My thanks go to User:The undertow for unblocking RDOlivaw and reblocking with the autoblock removed. .. dave souza, talk 08:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- Maybe they know one another, and don't want to give that information out to the public? -- Ned Scott 04:29, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- RDO claims not to know Dr88. Meatpuppetry is still an issue if they do, as they have supported one another in various discussions regarding article content and such. Lara❤Love 06:00, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- I've supported other editors in discussions in the past. Diffs of alleged wrongdoing would be helpful. ... dave souza, talk 08:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- I think we can wait for RDOlivaw to respond to Deskana's question before asking for more from anyone else. —Whig (talk) 08:45, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- I've supported other editors in discussions in the past. Diffs of alleged wrongdoing would be helpful. ... dave souza, talk 08:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- RDO claims not to know Dr88. Meatpuppetry is still an issue if they do, as they have supported one another in various discussions regarding article content and such. Lara❤Love 06:00, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
I normally do not like to give comprehensive checkuser answers as it tends to make smarter sockpuppeteers. However, between Deskana here and LaraLove on AN/I, the details have all been revealed, just not put together in order. So I will do that now, hopefully to put this thing to bed once and for all.
RDOlivaw edits exclusively from University during work hours Monday-Friday. There are no (logged-in) edits from any other location except for 4 recent edits from Nottingham and the sockpuppet "fingerprint", so his statement that he edits from wi-fi around town appears to be deliberate misdirection. There are also no other editors on his IP, so if it is a proxy, then en.wikipedia has only one editor at his university.
DrEightyEight edits exclusively from a static residential IP (probably DSL) on nights and weekends. I do not understand Jim's comment about modems and static IP addresses; that's how all modems work, and the only way two or more computers can connect to one modem and one IP address at the same time is through a LAN or wi-fi. Except for the "fingerprint", DrEightyEight is the only editor on his IP address, so there is little support for the suggestion that he is running an unsecured hotspot or has a free LAN in his apartment.
Here is the fingerprint. These edits were made from the same computer on DrEightEight's IP address.
- > * 23:08, 1 February 2008 (DrEightyEight)
- > * 23:06, 1 February 2008 (RDOlivaw)
- > * 23:01, 1 February 2008 (DrEightyEight)
So, it is theoretically possible that RDOlivaw was driving home from work and was struck by a sudden urge to talk to Jossi, and just happened to find an unsecured wi-fi hotspot outside of DrEightyEight's flat, and just happened to have the same model of computer in his car as DrEightyEight has on his desk. But I rather doubt it. This could be cleared up if DrEightyEight could post from his residence at the same time RDOlivaw is posting from Nottingham (did you notice DrEightyEight has been silent about his block even though he is the night/weekend editor?) -- except that, having said what the proof would be, I will no longer accept it as proof, since it may be trivial for him to get a friend or roommate to make a couple of edits for him. (This is one of the reasons I try to avoid making too many details public.)
It looks to me that this is a deliberate attempt to create two accounts by careful segregation of work and home edits, that would have been undetectable except for one mistake. Also note that the underlying IP addresses have been making edits on homeopathy and related topics since before these accounts were registered and as logged out editors after the accounts were created, and have supported each other's arguments on talk pages (especially Talk:Dana Ullman) as if they were two people. Thatcher 13:35, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- Hello. I was more specific (I think) in my email to Lara. I may have edited from city wifi available in the parks here, but I'm not sure. I have definitely used wikipdeia and the internet in the parks here and the nearby cafés. I have no knowledge of either Dr88 or Unprovoked in real life, although this doesn't mean that I don't know them - just that I don't know of their real identity. I don't drive I walk, and I often stop in cafés and parks around here, because it's a beautiful place and I nearly always have my laptop with me. I choose not to edit wikipedia on weekends, mostly because I view it as a little thing to do during dull moments at work, and because I ski or walk in the mountains or do things with my family at the weekend. I have no access to the Unprovoked account, so I cannot "resume editing" from this account. I don't know how to get in touch with Dr88/Unprovoked except by leaving messages here. I use a macbook pro running leopard with Firefox, which is standard issue where I work (and in most french research teams), as the French only pay for Macs or Dells (and no one likes Dells). I have probably used (though I don't think edited, since I got an account) wikipedia from other places such as student facilities and meeting rooms around the place, both fixed and wifi. I'm wouldn't be terribly surprised that not many people edit the English wikipedia, in English, from French cafés or parks etc. I am currently in Nottingham but will be back in France later this week. I have also usually agreed with Dr88s edits, but not always how he put them and I think I've disagreed more than once. I currently cannot edit wikipedia as this account (my only one) is blocked, and I guess if I make another account that will be blocked as a sock of Unprovoked too - hence I can no longer edit. If there are any other questions you want answered, or if I missed one, please ask. Thanks --RDOlivaw (talk) 14:43, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- You've still not explained how you managed to edit within minutes of each other on the same IP with the same machine, and why that was the only overlap. I'm not believing this. There are too many holes in your story. Two users on the same IP with the same interests and exactly the same kind of machine with exactly the same software on both, asking the same questions? Not believable. Also, where has DrEightyEight gone? He seems to have stopped editing now that you're in Nottingham. --Deskana (talk) 15:27, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- I have no idea where Dr88 is. I'm in the UK, I have never edited from anyone else's computer (although I got a new laptop sometime in Nov/Dec and the old one was put in the visitor pool). Firefox and macbook pros aren't that uncommon amongst French researchers, for reasons I've already explained. The same IP doesn't prove anything, except that we used the same proxy so were roughly in the same geographical location. There seems to be grounds for doubt anyway, and all I'm asking is that the block be transferred to Unprovoked and that I'm unblocked so I can continue to edit wikipedia (as I have no access to that account). If Dr88/unprovoked wishes to present their case then that is up to them --RDOlivaw (talk) 15:45, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- The IP on which the edits overlap isn't a proxy, it's what appears to be a static residential IP. Your explanation does not hold. We also get quite a lot of information on your machine architecture. Your explanation regarding the identical machines is possible, but not very likely. Your block is not going to be overturned. There is too much evidence against you. You need to look at this how we're seeing it: two users with a massive overlap in interests edit from the same IP with the same machines to ask the same question? In addition, you normally prefer editing when this other person does not, and vice versa. You also support each other. You're also unaware of minor grammatical and formatting similarities between your two accounts, that while on their own would be entirely circumstantial, fit quite well with the checkuser evidence. It makes you impossible to believe. And the amount of evidence we now have is nothing if not overwhelming. --Deskana (talk) 16:12, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- I have no idea where Dr88 is. I'm in the UK, I have never edited from anyone else's computer (although I got a new laptop sometime in Nov/Dec and the old one was put in the visitor pool). Firefox and macbook pros aren't that uncommon amongst French researchers, for reasons I've already explained. The same IP doesn't prove anything, except that we used the same proxy so were roughly in the same geographical location. There seems to be grounds for doubt anyway, and all I'm asking is that the block be transferred to Unprovoked and that I'm unblocked so I can continue to edit wikipedia (as I have no access to that account). If Dr88/unprovoked wishes to present their case then that is up to them --RDOlivaw (talk) 15:45, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- You've still not explained how you managed to edit within minutes of each other on the same IP with the same machine, and why that was the only overlap. I'm not believing this. There are too many holes in your story. Two users on the same IP with the same interests and exactly the same kind of machine with exactly the same software on both, asking the same questions? Not believable. Also, where has DrEightyEight gone? He seems to have stopped editing now that you're in Nottingham. --Deskana (talk) 15:27, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
- Hello. I was more specific (I think) in my email to Lara. I may have edited from city wifi available in the parks here, but I'm not sure. I have definitely used wikipdeia and the internet in the parks here and the nearby cafés. I have no knowledge of either Dr88 or Unprovoked in real life, although this doesn't mean that I don't know them - just that I don't know of their real identity. I don't drive I walk, and I often stop in cafés and parks around here, because it's a beautiful place and I nearly always have my laptop with me. I choose not to edit wikipedia on weekends, mostly because I view it as a little thing to do during dull moments at work, and because I ski or walk in the mountains or do things with my family at the weekend. I have no access to the Unprovoked account, so I cannot "resume editing" from this account. I don't know how to get in touch with Dr88/Unprovoked except by leaving messages here. I use a macbook pro running leopard with Firefox, which is standard issue where I work (and in most french research teams), as the French only pay for Macs or Dells (and no one likes Dells). I have probably used (though I don't think edited, since I got an account) wikipedia from other places such as student facilities and meeting rooms around the place, both fixed and wifi. I'm wouldn't be terribly surprised that not many people edit the English wikipedia, in English, from French cafés or parks etc. I am currently in Nottingham but will be back in France later this week. I have also usually agreed with Dr88s edits, but not always how he put them and I think I've disagreed more than once. I currently cannot edit wikipedia as this account (my only one) is blocked, and I guess if I make another account that will be blocked as a sock of Unprovoked too - hence I can no longer edit. If there are any other questions you want answered, or if I missed one, please ask. Thanks --RDOlivaw (talk) 14:43, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
As a little detail to the "massive overlap of interests", as determined by Betacommand's edit comparison tool:
- DrEightyEight
- Unique pages:66
- Edit count: 269
- Normal edit time: 16:40:16
- RDOlivaw
- Unique pages:65
- Edit count: 353
- Normal edit time: 13:41:57
- Combined
- Articles: 24
- total edits to combined pages:
- DrEightyEight: 198
- RDOlivaw: 215
- total combined edits: 413
- Lara❤Love 18:29, 11 February 2008 (UTC)