Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 October 19

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Clare Dimyon (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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There's only one article (After Ellen) that is significant coverage of Clare Dimyon. The MBE is the UK's lowest state honour, with hundreds awarded every year. There are simply too many of them being awarded to make anyone who receives them notable Ynsfial (talk) 16:17, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:03, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Vande Bharat (Sleeper) Express (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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as per the pervious discussion above. Not enough sources to state this is a different service from Vande Bharat Express SKAG123 (talk) 23:02, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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  • Merge with Vande Bharat Express as per nom.

  SKAG123 (talk) 23:03, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Vidya Vathi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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No reliable sources. Sakshi source doesn't seem to mention her. Not sure if meets WP:NACTOR because the three films that she played lead roles in do not have sources or Wikipedia articles. DareshMohan (talk) 18:01, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:00, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Gibbs (darts player) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Old, poorly referenced article. Couldn't find anything on a WP:BEFORE. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 22:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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TeleZapper (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Unsourced article and has been tagged as such since 2011. Very little information to be found, one review but mostly just adverts. Nthep (talk) 22:03, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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History of Science in Latin America and the Caribbean (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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A draft that was moved into mainspace by its creator. Seems to be promoting a scholarly database and no independent sources turned up by a before search. I dream of horses (Hoofprints) (Neigh at me) 21:51, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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  This is part of a class assignment. It is still in progress, so please don't delete. JuliaerodriguezUNH (talk) 23:08, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Andre Walker Hair Typing System (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Most of the sources are bad:

• "Curlcentric" - looks to just be mostly trying to sell you something

• "Women Health Info Blog" - is, well, a blog, one that looks to be by a "Prof. Dr. Gayane Dolyan Descornet" and seems to check out( maybe they deserve their own article? I see this so they've been around for a while) but is still basically just a self-published blog.(from my understanding we wouldn't cite a totally self published blog by Neil Degrasse Tyson on astromy related stuff afterall)

• Oprah.com - Yea totally not a problematic source to have your boss promote your system

• studio2121 - 404'd, but is regardless just literally an actual hair salon

this leaves the two podcasts and probably the strongest sources for the existence of this article being 99% Invisible and "The Stoop", haven't heard of the latter before, but it looks like something that could probably get its own article but just hasn't if it's press and awards page is to be believed

Anyway I'm basically arguing that everything but these two podcasts are bad sources, that leads into a bit of a more nebulous issue, that being that the system is basically considered bunk (yes, I know that a Reddit thread isn't the greatest of evidence, but I honestly don't know that much about this subject) or at least highly divisive on technical grounds (also supposedly racial grounds, but I don't really see it), and I only dived into this rabbithole because I saw this classification chart on the Hair article, and it just seemed so.....unscientific? I'm not sure, but I feel like this only exists as a page because someone attached to someone famous came up with it.

If this is successfully deleted, I'd also call for the nuking of Hair#Classification_systems for similar grounds, because unlike the main article that section isn't cited at all and neither is whatever the "FIA" system is. Akaibu (talk) 21:16, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment 1: Note for other editors, the nominator seems to be mass nominating articles for deletion after being temporarily blocked and then warned of a permanent block for disruptive editing (see their talk page). I will assume good faith that they are learning the rules.

Comment 2:I wrote the article after listening to the 99% Invisible episode, I'll work on adding more references to resolve the issue, please give me a few days to do this before adding your feedback as once I add the additional refs your comments will be out of date. Thanks very much, John Cummings (talk) 18:56, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @John Cummings, I see that you have added more references, but they don't seem to me to be very reliable ones, as well as addressing the issues I brought up with the prior references used. Though yes I'm a newer editor so a second opinion on the reliability of the current references might be warranted, but I don't believe I'm wrong in this regard. Hopefully you can address those in your next edit to the page. Akaibu (talk) 14:39, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:49, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Angus Ross (darts player) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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unnotable darts player, fails GNG. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 23:30, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Will have coverage in Scottish newspapers. Competed foryears at the top level of his sport, even if he wasn't successful.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:09, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. If there are sources in Scotland, then at least one containing IRS SIGCOV must be added to the article for this to be kept. Vaguewaving at sources is not a valid option. JoelleJay (talk) 20:31, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 21:47, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Kenji Tanaka (footballer, born 2001) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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I don't see much notability being granted by his playing 502 minutes of soccer in a lower tier in the US; after signing for a lowly team in the Brazilian Série D (not professional) he did not play at all, according to Soccerway. The Globo Esporte article about his signing looks like a press release, judging from the language and the pictures. Thus, this falls short of WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Geschichte (talk) 20:53, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Kenji Tanaka (footballer, born 1983) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Failure of WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT, with no significant and independent coverage (including in the ja:wiki, where all sources are primary), and 18 games in Japan's second and third leagues being his claim to notability. Creator is blocked indefinitely. Geschichte (talk) 20:47, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Victoria Park Presbyterian Church (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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I believe that this church has not existed for a good number of years. I was told that the property at 2712 Victoria Park Avenue had been sold. It is currently the location of Christ Emmanuel Community Church. Google Street View shows this church's signage prominently displayed on the building as long ago as May 2009. PeterR2 (talk) 19:55, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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  Speedy keep. No valid deletion rationale has been offered. Instead we have an WP:OUTOFBUSINESS argument. Notability once gained cannot be lost. This church may not have been notable to begin with (the nominator gives no indication of a WP:BEFORE) but even if it’s not, no policy-based rationale to delete has been advanced. Dclemens1971 (talk) 02:01, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Sorry I wasn't aware of that, and assumed that articles about no-longer-existent places got closed down unless they had a sufficient long-term relevance - since articles to which I have contributed have more than once been deleted without adequate reason - notably [David MacIntyre] was replaced by some ephemeral modern hockey player and moved to [David McIntyre (minister)] and then deleted, despite the fact that MacIntyre was an early Principal of an influential college - International Christian College, formerly Bible Training Institute, which lasted over a century and was very well known in evangelical circles in Scotland. Also the page about the Presbyterian Reformed Church (North America) which still exists, and is still mentioned in other Wikipedia articles, was deleted - see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Reformed_Christianity/Article_alerts/Archive_1#AfD PeterR2 (talk) 14:42, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @PeterR2, if you reformat your nomination to address how the subject of the article fails WP:NCHURCH and show evidence of a WP:BEFORE search for potential sources not included in the article, I would reconsider my !vote. (The raising of other deletion discussions is generally irrelevant per WP:OTHERSTUFF, but I'll address them briefly: David McIntyre (minister) was an uncontested WP:PROD, and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Presbyterian Reformed Church (North America) was closed as soft delete; both can be revived upon request at WP:REFUND, at which point they would have to be brought up at AfD again if editors still think they should be deleted. I can only speak to the latter, which I nominated, because I didn't believe it passed the WP:GNG or WP:NORG, the relevant notability guidelines.) Dclemens1971 (talk) 15:18, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - There does not appear to be a church by this name in Canada. Article has no sourcing whatsoever. The only church I find by that name, is in Australia. — Maile (talk) 02:00, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I can assure you it did exist - I am assuming Victoria Park Presbyterian Church was its local name - it was a congregation of the Associated Presbyterian Churches from their inception in 1989 onwards, having previously been in the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland. Unfortunately the 2007 Google Street View is of too poor quality to see what any signage may have said! See also An Historical Sketch of the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland in North America - it seems likely that the author of that article is not a representative of any of the denominations concerned, though his sympathies obviously lie with the Free Presbyterians. In any case the name is mentioned at Montgomery Library Archives of Westminster Theological Seminary and at various directory sites. PeterR2 (talk) 14:20, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Ok, I take your word for that. — Maile (talk) 23:31, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: Well, it existed [1]. That's not enough to vote either way, but it's real. Oaktree b (talk) 23:44, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete due to lack of significant coverage, and my own standards for churches. It might exist, but we can’t write an encyclopedia article around listings and church inside debates. It’s not so old a church building that it’s automatically noted for its historical value. Bearian (talk) 03:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: The AfD indeed qualified for a Speedy Keep closure due to the deficient nomination. However, now with two valid Delete !votes, the nomination no longer matters, so I'm relisting this in the hope of additional substantive arguments either way.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 20:15, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Workspace as a Service (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Extended dictionary definition created directly to main by a novice editor. The topic is already included in As a service, so there is no rationale for a new stub. Original editor objected to a PROD (with some non-WP comments) on the talk page, so I am converting it to an AfD. Delete unless someone turns this into a real encyclopedic article, which I am dubious about. Ldm1954 (talk) 19:48, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Ldm1954 proposed this article to be deleted and said "There is already an entry in As a service. At most this should be replaced by a redirect and the sources added to that page". But according to that line of thinking, the article Windows 11 should also not exist because there is an entry about it at Microsoft Windows. Same for iPhone 8, Samsung Galaxy S8 and many others. Workspace as a Service looks too me like a stub that has the potential to be developed in the future as more companies are starting to provide such a service - just like the other stubs mentioned in the as a service article, like for example Blockchain as a service, Content as a service or Logging as a service. Arwenz (talk) 20:53, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Energy-assisted magnetic recording (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Novice user created this page which is an extended WP:DICTIONARY definition. There already exists a page on Heat assisted magnetic recording, and Microwave assisted magnetic recording is mentioned in quite a few existing pages. I added a PROD, but novice editor objected (on Talk page) so I am coverting it to an AfD. A decent article on Microwave assisted magnetic recording is a something that might be done, but this page is just an WP:DICTIONARY stub that combines heat and microwave without providing useful encyclopedic information. TNT as this is not a good starting point. Ldm1954 (talk) 19:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Ldm1954 proposed this article to be deleted and said "Both heat and microwave assisted magnetic recording pages already exist. There is no reason to duplicate." It is true that the article HAMR (heat assissted) exists but the article MAMR (microwave assisted) does not exist. HAMR and MAMR are forms of EAMR just like Windows 11 and Windows 10 are forms of Microsoft Windows and they still deserve their own articles. Ldm1954 wants to delete my contributions, as I mentioned at Talk:Workspace as a Service. This article is not a dictionary definition, I did my best to create an enciclopedic stub. Arwenz (talk) 19:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not make inappropriate statements such as "Ldm1954 wants to delete my contributions". As part of WP:NPP I and others review new pages and check if they are appropriate. This one, as well as a couple of other stubs you have created fail standard review criteria. Please be more careful, and look at what is in other articles, read up on the notability guide in WP:Notability and also look at details such as the style guide WP:MOS and what Wikipedia is not WP:!. I think you have rushed in a bit, which is why you got blocked in July and have also had several articles removed or moved to draft space as well as edits reverted since July 2024. Ldm1954 (talk) 20:02, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ancient TL (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article PRODded with reason "Non-notable journal. Not indexed in any selective databases, no independent sources. Does not meet WP:NJournals or WP:GNG." Article dePRODded with reason "Remove deletion tag, I explain the reasoning a separate message. It does not mean that the article cannot be improved". PROD reason still stands, hence: delete. Randykitty (talk) 17:26, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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I guess I am a little bit lost here, what does PROD reason means? Why citations do not count or is there something I overlooked? Sorry, I just try to provide sufficient evidence to retain the journal, but I need to know what is actually required. Besides, I suggest putting this at least on hold because the journal has currently got a new editor (this is not me) and will move to a new publication platform (https://www.soap2.ch/) with all the old articles properly tagged with DOI. GeoGammaMorphologe (talk) 18:10, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To avoid the deletion of the entry for Ancient TL (ATL) from Wikipedia.com, I am providing evidence of the journal's relevance. First, a little bit of background: Ancient TL is the open-source and free-of-charge luminescence and electron-spin resonance dating community journal. The journal is run by volunteers from the academic community. The few articles published yearly are mainly of technical (such as conversion factors) nature of relevance to the experts in the field. Beyond, the journal publishes abstracts about completed theses in the field (source: http://ancienttl.org). The publications have no DOI (yet), and the journal needs to be indexed, which is related to the low number of publications yearly. Given the following evidence, The journal is of utmost relevance to the scientific community.

• According to Google Scholar, used in combination with the software Harzing's Publish or Perish (8.16.4748.9050 (2024.10.10.1451) (please double-check using those tools) the journal has received >12250 total citations in peer-reviewed journals with an average of 260 citations per year.
• The currently three most highly cited papers are: (1) G Adamiec, MJ Aitken (1998): 1701 citations, (2) G Guérin, N Mercier, G Adamiec (2011): 1276 citations, (3) S Kreutzer, C Schmidt, MC Fuchs, M Dietze, M Fischer, ... (2012): 345 citations
• The journal has an ISSN and is listed in https://search.worldcat.org/title/85448412?oclcNum=85448412
• The journal is also listed in https://zdb-katalog.de/list.xhtml?asc=false&t=Ancient+TL
• The journal is listed in university library systems, such as Heidelberg University: https://katalog.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/cgi-bin/search.cgi?query=band%3Auw67801411&sess=b23f1762df67e79fdf73cfc0308ccf83&vr=1&mark=&spell=
• The journal is frequently cited by high-impact and listed journals. A few examples:
• Nature communications: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-024-51546-9 (three articles from Ancient TL cited  in the context of the technical part of the luminescence dating; supplement)
• Scientific reports: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-69913-3 (six times cited in the supplement regarding the luminescence dating: -> Supplementary Information 2)
• Science: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.ade4248 (five times in the supplement regarding the luminescence dating -> Anc. TL)
• Geochronology: https://gchron.copernicus.org/preprints/gchron-2024-19/ (four times, paper currently in open discussion)
• Quaternary Geochronology: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1871101424001067 (two times)
• ... please extend this list by randomly picking a recent international publication with luminescence/ESR ages that went through a proper peer-review (I guess not all have cited articles from Ancient TL, but most certainly).

@RandyKitty if this is not enough evidence, I may ask to provide actual arguments why the given evidence is not sufficient. Thank you! GeoGammaMorphologe (talk) 21:01, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. I did a Google scholar search on "Ancient TL" and it shows quite a few papers with > 50 citations, some more than 100. I think this is enough to demonstrate that it is not fluff. Ldm1954 (talk) 14:14, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: nobody says that this is "fluff", but that is not enough to make a journal notable in the WP sense. That articles from the journal have racked up some citations is nothing out of the ordinary and certainly not enough to pass NJournals (and GNG even less). --Randykitty (talk) 15:24, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Randykitty I understand and see your point, but citations are the currency in academia. Why should authors, alleged experts in their field, cite a journal in peer-reviewed papers (and reviewers and editors agree) in journals such as Nature (communications) or Science regularly if what is published in this journal has no significance to the field? At least the high-impact journals are somewhat sensitive to non-essential references and frequently request their removal during the review process. Where do you draw the line then? Or differently formulated: What do you accept as evidence of the significance of a journal? The numbers I quoted are high in our field, but of course, compared to author disciplines such as medicine or chemistry, they are of little relevance. GeoGammaMorphologe (talk) 15:41, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  My understanding is that this is the threshold for notability: A topic is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list when it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject.

  I'm not sure how one would demonstrate this for every article published in the journal, but perhaps some examples help. Take the following article: "Huntley, D.J., Baril, M.R., 1997. The K content of the K-feldspars being measured in optical dating or in thermoluminescence dating. Ancient TL, v.15, n.1, 1997." Google Scholar registers 716 citations of this article. Looking at the first page of results, citing articles come from reputable sources (Quaternary Geochronology, Quaternary Science Reviews, Canadian Journal of Earth Sciences, Boreas, Science, Radiation Measurements, Science, Nature) and citing articles are themselves highly cited (cited by 662, 25, 63, 1189, 762, 546, 843, 169, 54, 683). Another example: "Kreutzer, S., et al., 2012. Introducing an R package for luminescence dating analysis. Ancient TL, v.30, n.1, 2012" This registers 345 citations. The first page of results show citing articles that are published in Nature Reviews, Science, Ancient TL, Science, Nature, Science Nature Ecology & Evolution, Nature, Quaternary Geochronology, and Quaternary Science Reviews. These citing articles are cited 169, 142, 158, 169, 341, 22, 26, 4 (published this year), 116, and 25 times.

  These articles are receiving significant coverage (highly cited), in reliable sources (Science, Nature, Quaternary Geochronology, Nature Reviews, and so on), that are independent of the source (with one exception, these citations are coming from other journals). One could replicate this analysis on many highly cited articles published in Ancient TL.

  Perhaps some users may interpret this threshold differently, but I argue that one could reasonable argue that Ancient TL meets this definition. TroutbeckRise (talk) 16:08, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. As a faculty researcher within the field of luminescence dating, I confirm that this journal is notable within our community. If the benchmark for notability is that a journal is known for publishing scholarly research in the spirit of GNG, Ancient TL plainly fits that definition. As detailed in a previous reply, a significant majority of all peer-reviewed journal articles which employ luminescence dating rely upon and cite work that was published in Ancient TL. Ancient TL also has historical importance for our field in that it, along with Radiation Protection and Dosimetry, was one of the first publications dedicated to this subfield. The scope of this journal is more restricted than most (usually involving technological advances germane to dating specialists) but the review process and editorial oversight are robust, and many individual articles are foundational to our field and highly cited. Finally, it should be re-emphasized that this journal is not predatory by any metric, but is a publication run by the scientific community which it serves. It is run on a volunteer basis and is diamond open access: it charges no fees to authors or readers. TroutbeckRise (talk) 14:54, 14 October 2024 (UTC)— TroutbeckRise (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

• Comment: I appreciate your dedication to this journal. However, one requirement of WP is that statements need to be supported by independent reliable sources. Statements from WP editors unfortunately don't count as such. Unless you can come up with such sources (again, independent of the subject), your !vote will likely be ignored by the closing admin. --Randykitty (talk) 15:34, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• @Randykitty Also here, I do agree, but I like to know why what is provided is not independent? We have absolutely no influence on numbers generated by Google Scholar or the other author's and journals decisions to cite work from a certain articles. GeoGammaMorphologe (talk) 15:44, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• The point is that none of those articles is about the journal. If this journal is so crucial to its field, how come there are no sources about that? Why is the journal not indexed in Scopus or the Science Citation Index or, indeed, any other index (not even less selective ones)? I understand that you'd like your journal to have an article here, but so far you have not provided any hard evidence. If even you editors yourselves can't find such evidence, it likely doesn't exist. --Randykitty (talk) 16:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  But perhaps the interpretation that inclusion within journal indices is the only viable metric of reputability is a narrow interpretation and one that is not codified into WP guidelines? Citation counts and the reputability of journals which cite Ancient TL articles are both independent of the source. Is there consensus that these metric do not count? If so, is this codified somewhere? I apologize for my ignorance here, but it strikes me that this singular reliance upon whether a journal is indexed is overly restrictive. TroutbeckRise (talk) 16:33, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Perhaps @GeoGammaMorphologe and I are demonstrating Criterion 2.b of the WP:Notability criteria: the journal is frequently cited by other reliable sources AND "the only reasonably accurate way of finding citations to journals are via bibliographic databases and citation indices, such as...Google Scholar." TroutbeckRise (talk) 17:02, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  A little context might be useful here. The notability criterion used for academic journals are controversial e.g. see this discussion, or the tens of thousands of words spilled on the talk page of NJOURNALS. The fundamental criteria used to determine if a topic should have a standalone Wikipedia article is WP:GNG: "A topic is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list when it has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." However, using the general notability guideline for journals is contentious because very, very few journals meet these criteria. Academics generally spend little time writing about their journals in depth (which would comprise significant coverage), and when they do there is often a COI (i.e. the writer lacks independence, such as an editor summarizing a journal's publication history in a retrospective or a "meta" note published with a journal issue). Using GNG isn't necessarily a problem, but many editors want looser standards for journal notability, for example because journals publish the reliable sources we often cite on Wikipedia and it serves readers to have information about the publishers of those cited sources. For that reason, editors write essays (like WP:NJOURNALS) that attempt to formulate alternative criteria. I want to emphasize that the criteria in that essay (such as C1, about indexing in selective database indices) is a frequently-used guide but is itself contentious. Note that C1 and C2 are an attempt to lower the bar so that even academic journals that don't meet GNG might be accepted as standalone Wikipedia articles! If Ancient TL doesn't meet that lower bar (or WP:GNG itself), it may make sense to mention it on other Wikipedia articles where it is relevant... or to recreate the article in the future if it receives more attention from academics. You are likely correct to focus on C2 here. C2 is tricky because it's hard to tell what is a significant number of citations in a journal's particular subfield. Suriname0 (talk) 19:02, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks for that clarification, @Suriname0. That is quite helpful and interesting. I suppose I would then only say that citation counts mentioned in my previous comment are generally considered high in geosciences and archaeometry. And then given the ambiguity involved, perhaps it would be best to err on the side of preserving the entry, especially given the broader context mentioned by @GeoGammaMorphologe. TroutbeckRise (talk) 20:35, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Randykitty OK, now, I understand. Thank you for making this clear. In fact not having this listing was so far one of the major critics the journal received from its own community. But I also suggest looking up **how** such indices are generated and **how** a journal becomes listed.

  Here are a few examples regarding ATL:

  • ATL articles do not have a DOI simply because the membership in the Web of Science, for instance, has a (low) price tag. In the past, readers had to pay for the print version of ATL; this was abolished in 2014 (I think) in favour of an online-only version. However, with funds, there was no money for the DOI registration. This situation will now change with the new publication platform, and the affiliation of the new editor will cover the costs.
  • To get indexed and receive an impact factor, you have to fulfil a certain number of criteria, for instance, a certain number of publications per year. ATL was consistently below that threshold, but this is related to the journal's nature and purely non-profit nature not its significance in the field. Even for professional publishers with all their resources, it takes years to get a journal indexed. For instance, Geochronology (https://www.geochronology.net/index.html) was launched in 2019, it received in IF in 2024.

  Bottom line, for diamond open-access journal it is not so super easy to achieve a listing, it needs resources. Still, I may add more examples that are somewhat independent (so far examples from academia are counted as independent; of course, no one explicitly writes about Ancient TL but uses the source).

  * To calculate luminescence (and electron spin resonance) ages, a few online calculators exist,

  **all**

  use data published in Acient TL

  because it contains important values agreed by the community and is used a reference:

  • DRAC caculator [(Durcan et al., 2015, Quaternary Geochronology)](https://doi.org/10.1016/j.quageo.2015.03.012); website:

  https://www.aber.ac.uk/en/dges/research/quaternary/luminescence-research-laboratory/dose-rate-calculator/?show=references

  • µRate [Tudyka et al., 2022, Archeometry](https://doi.org/10.1111/arcm.12828), website: https://miu-rate.polsl.pl/miu-rate/login
  • DRc [Taskalos et al., 2015, Archeometry](https://doi.org/10.1111/arcm.12162)
  • eM-Age program: https://github.com/yomismovk/eM-Age-program (the article itself is published in Ancient TL)
  • DIN 44808-1:2024-06 (https://www.dinmedia.de/en/draft-standard/din-44808-1/380077566) referes explicitly to five articles published in Ancient TL (18 references in total). Unfortunately, the norm is behind a paywall, as most of the norms are. Cited in this norm (available in German and currently as a draft in English) are the following articles from Ancient TL: Aitken (1992, ATL 10, 15-16); Duller (2011; ATL 29, 1-3); Duval et al. (2017, ATL 35, 11-39); Grün (1992; ATL, 10, 58); Mauz and Lang (2004, ATL 22, 1-8).
  • Equipment manufacturers refer to articles published in Ancient TL: https://www.lexsyg.com/applications/geology/radiofluorescence.html and publish technical notes in this journal: https://www.freiberginstruments.com/fileadmin/data/publications/12_Richter_et_al_2012_BetaQuelle_AncientTL.pdf; https://orbit.dtu.dk/en/publications/temperature-calibration-and-minisys-temperature-upgrade-for-the-r GeoGammaMorphologe (talk) 16:44, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Genuinely, thank you for creating an account to participate in this discussion! Testimonials from researchers in a field can be very useful. I want to quickly point you toward Wikipedia's WP:COI policies; if you have any COI (such as being a current or former editor for Ancient TL), you would need to mention that in a reply or in an edit summary. Cheers, Suriname0 (talk) 15:04, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Suriname0 Sorry, you are right; I should disclose that I am not unbiased because I am an editorial board member (not the editor) of the journal (the new website is not online yet, though). Two things are, however, important: When I created the original entry on Wikipedia in 2015 and made modifications in the past, I had no such affiliation. Coincidentally, I was just appointed, and we had the first meeting literally a day before ATL was flagged for removal from Wikipedia (which, admittedly, was a little bit odd). My term on the board is limited to a maximum of two years, but I hope that you see that, besides this conflict of interest, the arguments I have given are based on facts and should speak for themselves. GeoGammaMorphologe (talk) 15:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, this kind of thing is not generally a problem (and quite common for academia-related articles which have lots of gray area). Just needs to be disclosed. Thanks! Suriname0 (talk) 18:36, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for letting me know. Yes, I am also currently an editor for Ancient TL. TroutbeckRise (talk) 15:26, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Randykitty and @Suriname0, I may raise two more asepcts, and then I will rest my case and wait for the final decision.

I argue that understanding how knowledge is derived is crucial but has been underrepresented in the discussion so far. Imagine I were to write a new Wikipedia article about the timing of the last glacial ice shield retreat in Europe. Because I have a little bit of an understanding of the subject, I would use luminescence data from loess deposits in Europe. Of course, I would cite only sources with a high reputation in the field, such as Quaternary Science Reviews, Nature Geoscience, Science, Quaternary Geochronology, etc. Assuming that I do not screw up the writing, there would be little doubt about the validity of the content, given that it uses highly acceptable sources. But here is the catch: all those articles and their discovery likely sit on parameters published in a journal, eventually not considered worth being listed in the first place. This is a severe problem because it changes how knowledge is generated and reiterated, and it gives more credit to secondary sources than the basis they are using to infer their discovery. I cannot see how this is in Wikipedia's genuine interest. Still, I acknowledge that this is a tricky matter, given the lengthy discussions linked by @Suriname0.

The other point I may raise is that we live in a time where the dissemination of knowledge is a very successful business model. So, instead of giving society free access to knowledge, researchers (paid by taxpayer money) summarise their findings. Then, the taxpayer pays again in one way or another for every article published. And yet, still, large parts of our societies will never have access to that knowledge for pure business reasons. My understanding of Wikipedia is that it tries to provide free access to knowledge to everyone, and this is, on a very different level, of course, the same idea as a community journal where volunteers do everything, apply the same ethical standards as other, listed, journals but distribute free under CC BY licence conditions do not charge the author. To me, this is the original idea of Wikipedia, and I find it daunting to realise that Wikipedia itself is a little bit reluctant to support the engagement of others in that regard.

I did not even blink when a large part of the content from the article was removed in 2022 because this was likely indeed overly promotional. But what is on the vote here is the deletion of mainly technical information. Is it really that essential to have it removed?

Well, I guess that's all I have. Thanks for reading and for considering my arguments!

GeoGammaMorphologe (talk) 20:13, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Independent sources are sufficient to demonstrate that this journal has a meaningful presence in the professional world of a legitimate scientific field. Given that, I am satisfied that this article provides a home for useful information about a topic which readers would have reason to want to know. In my own experience, these sorts of articles can be quite useful for vetting sources of information, both in my professional life and while editing Wikipedia (and even while just reading the news). So I think this article is a net positive for the encyclopedia and common sense would suggest that it should be kept. Given the limitations of the WP:GNG guideline and the lack of consensus around the WP:NJOURNALS essay, I think common sense is the best thing we have to go on. Hence, keep. Botterweg (talk) 22:05, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: Thanks for addiing some sources to this article. Unfortunately, in-passing mentions in obituaries of the founding editor do not contribute to notability. And an editorial published in the journal itself is not independent and does not contribute to notability either. So basically your motivation for your "keep" !vote is WP:ILIKEIT. --Randykitty (talk) 17:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Clarification: My argument for keeping the article is simply what is stated above. It does not involve any obituaries, editorials, or personal feelings about the topic. Botterweg (talk) 18:49, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Some of the (canvassed?) Keep views here carry little if any P&G weight. But even discarding those, we don't yet have consensus--or even quorum--to delete.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 19:19, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete does not pass GNG or NJOURNALS. PARAKANYAA (talk) 21:15, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SugarGh0st RAT (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG. All the references are not reliable. Ibjaja055 (talk) 16:11, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Notice: I have added more references Arwenz (talk) 19:43, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak Keep It seems like enough of the references check out, but I think more references and content are needed. Royal Autumn Crest (talk) 19:03, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Rajan Shahi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:SIGCOV and notable sources, more like paid pr page. Suspected creation by sockpuppet. Imsaneikigai (talk) 16:05, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete. Poor to unreliable sources with no significant coverage on the subject in secondary independent reliable sources. Fails WP:NDIRECTOR and WP:NBIO. RangersRus (talk) 14:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Doesn't qualify for soft-deletion.
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A. P. Unnikrishnan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NPOL and WP:GNG TheWikiholic (talk) 14:17, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep WP:GNG is passable, reliable sources are available Spworld2 (talk) 10:44, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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• Delete Does not pass WP:NPOL. Mccapra (talk) 21:20, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Najma Thabsheera (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NPOL and WP:GNG TheWikiholic (talk) 14:16, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep WP:GNG Pass , has reliable sources, she is a national level women leader - Spworld2 (talk) 11:48, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The subject’s role as the national vice president of a state-level political party’s youth wing does not automatically meet the notability guidelines under WP:POL, regardless of gender. Furthermore, the available coverage primarily focuses on routine updates about her new positions within the party, which is typical for politicians and thus does not fulfill the criteria for WP:GNG. TheWikiholic (talk) 18:12, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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• Delete does not pass WP:NPOL. Mccapra (talk) 21:37, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

M. A. Mohammed Jamal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Subject fails WP:NPOL and WP:GNG TheWikiholic (talk) 14:14, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep WP:GNG is passable, There are reliable sources Spworld2 (talk) 11:44, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Manaf (Lorry Udama Manaf) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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A non notable Internet personality who falls short of WP:GNG and WP:BASIC. He seems to be related to a notable event but per WP:NOTINHERITED that doesn’t count. TheWikiholic (talk) 14:04, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep There are many sources that prove notability, pass WP:GNG -- Spworld2 (talk) 9:44, 19 October 2024 (UTC)

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Ayisha Abdul Basith (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:SINGER and WP:GNG. TheWikiholic (talk) 13:46, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep-Multiple sources having non-trivial mentions about article to maintain WP:GNG.Irshadpp (talk) 08:44, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom, Youtuber fails WP:GNG, coverage is trivial, PR pieces. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 11:18, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Unfortunately, I agree with this. Although there's one of citation that appeared as "Independent", that one her feature story on Gulf News, but the intent and tone of the writing is dubious to say the least. The rest of citations I can assure that they're indeed PR pieces which written surrounding her performance at Salim-Sulaiman's annual music event, "Bhoomi" 2022. So, even though I myself one of the contributor of this article, but my intention was to put some critical information regarding her affiliations and that time there was a "Citation Needed" in one of the section, even though I myself was surprised and confused by this article's existence. So, I'm in favor for deletion of this article. Also for @TheWikiholic can you check its article that on Bangla Wikipedia? Maybe you can asses that one too. Thank you. Salaam -dsab Drhyhanna (talk) 04:54, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If I add her AllMusic's link, can it save this article from being deleted. But, there's a potential backlash regarding her AllMusic profile, it was created as part of submission by Salim-Sulaiman's Merchant Records, by their associated music agencies: Global Music Junction and Warner Music India. So, her releases that listed there were her releases/associated releases that under Merchant Records, not by her current contracted label, Andante Music. It's the link: https://www.allmusic.com/artist/ayisha-abdul-basith-mn0004311198#credits if you want to check. Please reply so we can discuss it further. Thanks for consideration. Salaam -dsab Drhyhanna (talk) 05:54, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Rajiv Jain (politician) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Mentions in independent sources are only appointment news, not elected to any legislative body, only held unelected post within the party, lack independent sources which talk about the subject in depth, fails WP:NPOL and WP:GNG TheSlumPanda (talk) 18:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete does not pass WP:NPOL. Mccapra (talk) 22:15, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Night Begins to Shine (Teen Titans Go!) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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No evidence of notability for these episodes together, better covered at main articles Indagate (talk) 09:29, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep: Sources seem to show this is notable enough. https://www.cbr.com/teen-titans-go-ber-night-begins-shine/ ; https://www.wbur.org/npr/545906301/an-accidental-hit-begins-to-shine-and-only-because-of-teen-titans-go ; https://www.dcplanet.fr/220502-decouvrez-funko-pop-teen-titans-go-version-the-night-begins-to-shine ; https://tvsourcemagazine.com/2020/07/review-teen-titans-go-the-night-begins-to-shine-2/ ; https://meiobit.com/371129/jovens-titas-the-night-begins-to-shine-cancao-incluida-em-biblioteca-virou-um-sucesso-entre-os-fas-warner-capitalizando-em-cima/ ;https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/08/the-fall-out-boy-music-video-for-teen-titans-go-redeems-that-horrible-ghostbusters-song/ etc -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 16:29, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Lets take a look:

  1. CBR: WP:VALNET
  2. WBUR: Local NPR affiliate, pretty plot based but does have some COV. if its SIG? meh
  3. DCPlanet: Seems to be nothing more than a Funko pop annoucenemnt. I also question the relability of such a source.
  4. TVSource Magazine: pretty good but once again questionable source.
  5. Meiobit: Questionable reliability but otherwise okay.
  6. Konatku: 3 surface level paragraphs.

  In conclusion Weak Keep or redirect to List of Teen Titans Go! episodes Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 03:21, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 10:59, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect: to the episode list as suggested. Apart from the NPR link, the rest aren't helpful. Oaktree b (talk) 14:58, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to List of Teen Titans Go! episodes per Olifanofmrtennant's source analysis. I think the NPR article is fairly sustainable but the others are questionable in reliability. Conyo14 (talk) 23:14, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep – Per OlifanofmrTennant. The song has its own notability independent of the cartoon. Svartner (talk) 20:59, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Article for the song is at The Night Begins to Shine, that's not nominated. Indagate (talk) 21:09, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Please note that this AfD is for the ten episodes, not for the B.E.R. song.
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Harold Ray Presley (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Biography of a sheriff who died in a shoot out with no lasting effect. I thought perhaps their early involvement in the D.A.R.E program might add to notability, however it appears that their participation was at the local level only. I'm not seeing how the article meets Ponyo^{bons mots} 18:34, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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San Andreas: The Original Mixtape (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Both of the references in the article are dead links, and the most significant coverage I was able to find is in an article by Pitchfork ([2]) which has some sentences about the mixtape. Other than that, I was only able to find mentions such as [3]. A possible alternative to deletion is a redirect to Young Maylay. toweli (talk) 18:17, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Yellow Tail Records (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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I wasn't able to find significant coverage of the subject in reliable sources. A possible alternative to deletion is a redirect to the band Uncle Bonsai, as both it and Yellow Tail Records were founded by Andrew Ratshin ([4]). toweli (talk) 17:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Nikola Đokić (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Despite having a brief career at the professional level, I am unable to find any significant coverage in any language. No evidence of WP:SPORTBASIC. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 17:18, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Afroza Abbas (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Lack independent sources to establish notability, fails WP:GNG. Not a member of any legislative body, fails WP:NPOL. TheSlumPanda (talk) 16:35, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Redirect to Mirza Abbas as ATD. Mccapra (talk) 22:17, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I Love the '90s (American TV series) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This is one of a set of articles on a TV show. Note that all of those have only one single reference--look at I Love the '90s: Part Deux, and you will find a little pop culture article that really only helps I Love.... The articles themselves are nothing but catalog info at best, all OR/trivia. One of the articles was created by a sock, User:Leviathan648, but I haven't checked them all. A redirect would be fine. Drmies (talk) 15:59, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: these articles are the longtime hobby horses of this editor, going back years; note the edit summaries in which they threaten other editors (see this one). I think I'll ask for a range block for disruptive, unverified, trivial edits if they continue. Drmies (talk) 16:04, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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• Redirect to I Love... In this form, it's literally a 'type-what-I-see' recap, which we long ago depreciated as not proper, nor sourced, and there are surely non-SEO sources for this show where we can write a short and descriptive summary of each episode. Right now though it just is not a proper article style at all. Nate • (chatter) 21:32, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: Coverage exists: https://www.today.com/popculture/vh1-its-too-early-love-90s-wbna5345119 ; https://www.mlb.com/reds/tickets/concerts/love-the-90s ; Richards, R. W. (2021). Cinematic TV: Serial Drama Goes to the Movies. United States: Oxford University Press, p. 40, for example. Also WP:NLIST says: "Lists that fulfill recognized informational, navigation, or development purposes often are kept regardless of any demonstrated notability." -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 23:14, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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Cantonment Public School and College, Rangpur (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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The only independent reliable sources found in English or Bengali are brief mentions in lists (e.g. [5]). They do not contain the significant coverage required to justify a stand alone article. Was earlier redirected to the surrounding community, Rangpur Cantonment, where the school is mentioned, but the redirect was removed by an editor who appears very familiar with the school outside of what published sources say. Worldbruce (talk) 15:24, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Initially it was a independent article but later someone removed all texts and redirected to Rangpur Cantonment.

Then I rescued this article. It’s a famous school in northern Bangladesh.

unfortunately i didn’t add any reference.

Now I’ve added some references, it’s not an easy task to get newslink for a school.

There is also articles about this school in other languages.

I’m requesting not to delete this article. Cerium4B (talk) 21:59, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pilot major (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This stub has remained unsourced since 2013 and has remained a WP:DICDEF. A Google Books search finds several works that mention that such and such person was a "pilot-major" of an early modern European trade or exploration fleet, but no work defining or describing this title or occupation, which means that there is no basis for an encyclopedia article. Sandstein 14:31, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The Seafood Bar (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This is a minor chain of restaurants that fails to meet WP:NCORP. There are some restaurant reviews online, but no WP:SIGCOV, no evidence of awards won, or similar notable coverage. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 14:27, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Crunchy Black (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Originally redirected to Three 6 Mafia at AfD all the way back in 2011, there is indeed not enough coverage here for a standalone BLP. Independent coverage is limited to a report of an injury and a separate legal issue by two gossip sources that should not be used on BLPs, an ASCAP credit to verify his real name (reliable for that purpose, but does not establish notability), a low-quality biography that looks like the product of a content farm (source 6), a list of songs the subject has contributed to (source 7), a one-sentence AllMusic biography, and a link to an Apple Music listing. The only valuable source is 4, which is about Three 6 Mafia, precisely where this article should be redirected to. No evidence of independent notability to pass WP:NMUSICBIO, by all rights should have stayed a redirect especially given the BLP problems present on the page. JeffSpaceman (talk) 14:08, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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World Statesmen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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I wasn't able to find significant coverage of the subject in reliable sources. The references used in the article only provide short descriptions. toweli (talk) 14:02, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Navin Chawla (judge) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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No WP:SIGCOV for the subject. In this refbombed blp, leaving aside the primary sources [6],[7] all the rest are trivial mentions.

In the discussion with one of the user on the talk page of the article, they I argue that

1) Verbatim quotations reproduced without any independent commentary from the reliable source, does not qualify sigcov criteria.

2) They I also argue that the SNG WP:JUDGE which presumes notability is not a valid argument to make, when the guideline says meeting one or more does not guarantee that a subject should be included. Also, the presumption does not hold if challenged by other editor. The guideline says topics which pass an SNG are presumed to merit an article, though articles which pass an SNG or the GNG may still be deleted or merged into another article, especially if adequate sourcing or significant coverage cannot be found, or if the topic is not suitable for an encyclopedia

Imo, the only contention that needs resolving is whether verbatim quotations from the article's subject qualify as sigcov. If they do, we could have perhaps an

• Indiscriminate list of cases heard by Judge Navin Chawla in Delhi High Court or
• Indiscriminate list of various oral arguments made by Judge Navin Chawla in the various cases he heard in Delhi High Court,

both of which wouldn't qualify WP:NLIST. Judges in India usually maintain a low-profile and media attention that the article's subject has received (partly due to wikipedia's circular reporting in Asian News International vs. Wikimedia Foundation) is not an attention-seeking behaviour as per WP:LPI. — hako9 (talk) 13:51, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete there is no coverage about the judge himself, only cases he has covered. Hemiauchenia (talk) 14:46, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Bus driver drive busses. Judges judge cases. Without secondary coverage, neither is inherently notable. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:56, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If we had a large number of articles about a bus driver's driving they would be notable... We also seem to have secondary coverage (that is we have sources talking about what other sources said about the subject) Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:24, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, I think we're over the WP:GNG line into notability... Extended coverage of their legal opinions are as much significant coverage as extended discussions of anyone elses opinions. They don't somehow not count because the subject is a judge, there is no negative part of that notability standard. I don't buy the WP:LPI argument, they don't appear to meet the criteria as laid out. I would also note that the article currently only incorporates english language sources, likely there is coverage in other languages which can still be presumed to exist. I would also note that OP's opening statement is more than a little unorthodox, "Imo, the only contention that needs resolving is whether verbatim quotations from the article's subject qualify as sigcov" is just plain misleading because thats just not an accurate description of the coverage we have and you can't misrepresent the views of others like that (I think I'm the user they're trying to call out, but I didn't argue either of those things they're red herring). Hako9 also chose not to notify the other users they mentioned in the OP of this discussion. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:24, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Extended coverage of their legal opinions are as much significant coverage as extended discussions of anyone elses opinions what does extended coverage mean for you? Verbatim reproduction of oral arguments made by a judge during a court proceeding is the job of a court stenographer. The secondary reliable sources that have reproduced the quotes have not published their articles with the judge in mind. They published those because they are following the case. And once again try to not make ridiculous arguments like Wikipedia:But there must be sources!, and waste other editors' time. You insert yourself in discussions about topics which are out of your depth, and you try to make a lazy argument that there are sources but I just can't find them. Doesn't work. And explain how I misrepresented your views. — hako9 (talk) 16:59, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The sources go well beyond just verbatim reproduction of oral arguments made by a judge during a court proceeding, they also talk about the impact of the judge's rulings and have third parties who offer their opinion on the arguments and/or their impact. It misrepresents my arguments because I neither argue that verbatim quotations reproduced without any independent commentary from the reliable source, does qualify sigcov criteria or that the SNG WP:JUDGE which presumes notability is a valid argument to make Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:08, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The sources go well beyond just verbatim reproduction of oral arguments made by a judge during a court proceeding, they also talk about the impact of the judge's rulings and have third parties who offer their opinion on the arguments and/or their impact They don't. — hako9 (talk) 17:19, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Greco, Albert (2024). "The Impact of Legal, Intellectual Property, and Copyright Infringement Issues: 2000–2022". The Strategic Marketing of Science, Technology, and Medical Journals. Palgrave Macmillan. (wplibrary) Blocking Sci-Hub
• "Delhi HC asks Google, X to remove posts against Om Birla's daughter". The Indian Express. July 24, 2024.
• "Shankaracharya sues Govindananda Saraswati for calling him 'fake baba'; Delhi HC responds". Hindustan Times. August 13, 2024.

fiveby(zero) 17:11, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reproducing the relevant bit However, by 2021, international concerns about Sci-Hub’s illegal activities became more intense, including a major litigation against Sci Hub in India, initiated by ACS, Elsevier, and Wiley, which triggered Sci-Hub to stop illegal downloads onto the Sci-Hub website.52 While the U.S. lawsuits posed some threats to Sci-Hub’s reputation, no financial payments were ever made by Sci-Hub to any of the plaintiffs. However, the litigation in India posed an exceptionally serious threat to Sci-Hub; and, for the first time, Sci-Hub decided to mount a serious defense before the Delhi High Court’s Justice Navin Chawla. Sci-Hub was concerned that its services could be blocked in India.53 This prompted Elbakyan to submit a written appeal to the High Court. A number of prominent Indian scholars supported keeping Sci-Hub on line; and they insisted that the loss of Sci-Hub would pose a serious burden on academics and students since blocking Sci-Hub would have a dramatic impact on scholar ship and research.54 However, Justice Chawla pointed out that Elbakyan’s written appeal to the High Court indicated clearly that Sci-Hub had “unequivocally admitted” to copyright infringement; and the Court ruled against Sci-Hub and the other defendants. Therefore, access to Sci-Hub in India was blocked.

Is this significant coverage of Chawla, according to you? I don't think so. Quite noteworthy for an article on the Sci-Hub case though. — hako9 (talk) 17:24, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is similar to the run of the mill coverage in the dozen other sources cited. — hako9 (talk) 17:28, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

With ATG right now, but looking. Your nomination is offensive. It's not an uncontrollable itch. fiveby(zero) 17:34, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could be my shitty sense of humor. — hako9 (talk) 17:42, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding this what can one learn about Judge Chawla from any of these articles, except a) He heard X case b) He made Y decision. — hako9 (talk) 17:46, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That it? WP cant inform anyone with that article is probably true tho. fiveby(zero) 18:20, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It is trivia. Not significant coverage. — hako9 (talk) 18:39, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the HT article syndicated from ANI, is another in the long list of sources for which the only use in the context of the article in discussion, is making a list of cases where the subject presided over. So its not sigcov. — hako9 (talk) 18:44, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been mentioned in Wikipedia:Village pump (WMF)#The Asian News International vs. Wikimedia Foundation situation. Jeraxmoira🐉 (talk) 17:26, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete not SIGCOV; Wikipedia's purpose is for noegenesis, not for infantile attempts to pester people you may harbour a dislike towards. Traumnovelle (talk) 20:14, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• I understand the uncontrollable itch that one could have when they have shit stuck up in their ass and there's no toilet paper. Is there some reason you're so rude and crude in your nomination? Please reword. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:23, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I think hako9 is annoyed because he thinks people are creating Wikipedia articles for the deliberate purpose of antagonizing the judge in the ongoing WMF vs ANI case, even when they aren't justified by sources. Hemiauchenia (talk) 20:27, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Then he should AGF... It appears that if the judge is notable they became so as a result of the coverage around that case so its a bit of a chicken and egg situation... I would also note that we have hundreds of pages for Indian judges which are less well sourced than this one, Jyoti Singh (judge) for example has almost the exact same experience, rank, and education as Chawla. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  A user as experienced as you should know that WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a valid argument at AfD. Hemiauchenia (talk) 20:43, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I did not say it was notable because of that, I noted the apparent state of consensus. Do you have any comment on AGF and the chicken and egg nature of the alledged notability? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:45, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Yea we have plenty of articles that need to be trashed. Fortunately, we have a place called afd. — hako9 (talk) 20:48, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thank you for rewording. I appreciate it. –Novem Linguae (talk) 20:57, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mexican auto insurance (tourist) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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While this page maybe helpful, I think it fails WP:NOTGUIDE. Wikipedia isnt here for helping tourists. That's what Google is for. Plus, we don't have other articles talking about this specific type of insurance in other countries. Some of the information over here maybe suitable to add to the page vehicle insurance in the United States JuniperChill (talk) 13:37, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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BenchWarmers DVD Magazine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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I wasn't able to find any coverage of the subject in reliable sources. toweli (talk) 12:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Bench Warmer International (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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There doesn't appear to be enough coverage of the subject for it to meet WP:NCORP. toweli (talk) 12:34, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete: I found a couple passing references (single sentences saying so-and-so had appeared on one of their cards) but nothing close to WP:SIGCOV. ThadeusOfNazereth(he/him)^{Talk to Me!} 17:42, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

William Joseph Williams (singer) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Unsourced BLP. Was previously PRODed (then the PROD removed by a LTA account), but the reason given there no longer applies. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:10, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Fails WP:GNG and WP:NSINGER can't find any significant coverage of him let alone 16 awards. Theroadislong (talk) 13:29, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Note please see SPI Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Japansonglove for details about the ongoing article/disambiguation page hijack for articles with similar names. Those new accounts should be reported to the SPI case and revert edits to the article. It's hard to tell when I'm on my mobile, I don't know what the original page was, sorry. Knitsey (talk) 13:35, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Fails WP:GNG and WP:NSINGER. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 15:19, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: Unsourced BLP. Possible hoax content which lacks any verification to back up the claims in the article. Kind Tennis Fan (talk) 16:50, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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• Speedy Delete (WP:CSD#G5) This subject has been the topic of a long term sockepuppeting case (see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Japansonglove). I frankly don't understand the page history, as the oldest entry in its history shows a minor edit by Onel5969, a long-time editor in good standing. This must have been a minor edit to something, but there's nothing prior in the page history. In any case, the page should be speedily deleted. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 18:31, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - The page was hijacked in October. William Joseph Williams. Now that that is sorted out one can just look at the October edits. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 18:34, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dror Paley (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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No independent article which discuss about the subject in depth, fails WP:GNG. doesn’t received any special achievement or any prestigious award. TheSlumPanda (talk) 12:19, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Comment: as the article creator, I'm not particularly invested in this one. I basically created the article as an (unsolicited and unrewarded) favour for his then-webmaster because I thought a wikilink from Ilizarov apparatus would be better than a link to his website there; see the conversations at User talk:Szlimblengthening and my early-2009 talk page archive. I only ended up with the relevant articles on my watchlist due to unhelpful edits. I don't think I would have created this article under the same circumstances today, at least without doing a very deep WP:BEFORE check first. Graham87 (talk) 12:39, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Somali Corpus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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No secondary source given for notability. A WP:BEFORE on Google Scholar gives this article that uses the corpus and gives a description of it. Otherwise, I can only find a passing mention and this article, which uses the corpus but doesn't go in-depth about it. It doesn't look like WP:GNG is met, although I am open to changing my mind if more sources come to light.

Noting that the original author has declared a COI with the subject. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 12:01, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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This was a pretty rudimentary stub. Now, a number of sources have been added that discuss the importance of such corpora of under-resourced languages, and of Somali resources in particular. Links have been added to this page. The lead has also been cleaned up to clarify what a corpus is and where Somali is spoken. LingLass (talk) 17:00, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! The issue wasn't about the lack of information or context in the lead, or about whether such corpora are important. To meet WP:GNG, sources should go in-depth about this specific corpus in particular, not about corpora in general. Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 18:55, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe a better solution would be to move this to a page about Somali corpora in general, rather than focusing on this corpus in particular. I feel like there are now a number of other corpora for this language that together have some deeper coverage in the literature.LingLass (talk) 19:54, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That could indeed work! Chaotic Enby (talk · contribs) 20:47, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IndiaOne Air (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Non-notable airline. I suspect a WP:COI here. Ratnahastin (talk) 11:42, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Comment – Not exactly a valid nomination rationale. There has been no reason given as to why the airline is not notable and no evidence given as to why there might be a conflict of interest. An assertion of non-notability is not enough. See WP:JNN. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 12:35, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Check the Twitter profile mentioned on the article creator's userpage.[8] If you believe this subject meets WP:GNG then you can convince me otherwise by showing the sources. Ratnahastin (talk) 12:47, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My objection is based on the fact that you've provided no evidence to support that the airline is non-notable, simply stating that it's non-notable. If you believe that there is a conflict of interest, you are free to discuss it at WP:COI/N but I don't think this is the appropriate venue to do so. Aviationwikiflight (talk) 13:18, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Marián Bochnovič (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Having an international appearance is no longer a free pass and Bochnovič needs to meet WP:GNG only in order for this article to be kept. I've checked corresponding Wikipedia articles in other languages, especially the Slovak one which would help copy over, but none of them provide enough significant coverage for him. I only find SME, but one source is not sufficient. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 11:29, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep, there is also this. Capped played, league champion, played in the Champions League group stage - this was during the 1990s. This builds on a quote, but nonetheless points to him being a "club legend" at Nitra, still remembered for a bronze medal in the 1988–89 Czechoslovak First League. After retiring from football, there is futsal coverage. Also after retiring, he was the manager of KFC Kalná nad Hronom (desribed as having had a "rich and successful" playing career) until he went to Slovan Bratislava's academy; has also been assistant coach of Slovakia U17, can better sources about the latter jobs be found? Geschichte (talk) 21:34, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

David S. Feldman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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No independent source which discuss in depth about subject, fails WP:GNG, doesn’t received any prestigious award. TheSlumPanda (talk) 11:11, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Holographic direct sound printing (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article based upon a 1 month old paper. While it has minor attention in pop science press, its Altmetric of 76 is not particularly high (it would need 200-300). Page is almost completely promo of research from a single group at Concardia University. Considering how active additive manufacturing currently is, much much more is required. Wikipedia is not the place to promote your science. Ldm1954 (talk) 11:07, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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This is not my science. I found about this method of 3D printing in the newspapers and I thought it probably deserves to be mentioned at Wikipedia. Arwenz (talk) 19:25, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Indy Indie (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This is a substub which could in theory be merged/redirected to Economy of Indianapolis#Retail trade, but which doesn't appear to have sustained and independent sigcov to even justify that. ^~Hydronium^~Hydroxide^~(Talk)~ 11:00, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Leslie Controls (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NCORP. None of the references here or in a WP:BEFORE hold up to WP:ORGCRIT. CNMall41 (talk) 20:41, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Companies and Florida. CNMall41 (talk) 20:54, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep I didn't know about independent sources when I created this, but I have other ways to find these sources now that I didn't know about then. And there have been major changes since this was nominated. There is potential.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 18:00, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Vchimpanzee:,Thanks for sharing. I will take another look if you can provide the sources you feel meet WP:ORGCRIT. --CNMall41 (talk) 21:18, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I found some sources that you probably can't access, but you can see there may be better sources now. A Google search at least got me a bunch of sources about the bankruptcy and I chose the best. I hope they all passed muster. One was The Wall Street Journal but I was only able to see part of the article. It was the important part. After that I tried ProQuest with the information that I had sourced to the company's own web site.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 21:30, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. What I am asking is if you can point out the specific sources that meet the criteria found in WP:ORGCRIT? The ones you found doing those searches? I have access to a lot but cannot find any that do. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:41, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Stengle, Bernice (November 26, 1987). "Full Steam Ahead: Leslie Controls makes valves to keep ships moving and whistles blowing". St. Petersburg Times. p. 12B.

"Leslie Controls seeks bankruptcy for asbestos claims". non-paywalled copy on Business Insurance. July 12, 2020. Retrieved October 9, 2024 – via Bloomberg News.

Stengle, Bernice (February 20, 1989). "Workers sell Leslie Controls to raise capital and shed debt". St. Petersburg Times. p. 19.

Doss, Kristina (October 29, 2010). "Circor's Leslie Controls Wins Bankruptcy Court Approval Of Plan". The Wall Street Journal. Retrieved October 9, 2024.

Kahn, Fareha (April 28, 2011). "Circor's unit emerges from bankruptcy protection". Reuters. Retrieved October 9, 2024.

The last two you should be able to access, although much of the Wall Street Journal source is not accessible to me unless I can find some way to do it through the library. I forgot to do that this morning when I was there.

And if you're not satisfied with these for any reason, I don't know what to say. I've heard people object to coverage in a local paper but the amount of detail seems to be sufficient. I'm hoping ProQuest or other sources can help me with some of the details that came from the company's web site.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 19:55, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.newspapers.com/image/528085231/?match=1&clipping_id=156901759 This looks better and mentions an award. I found another article but it feels like a press release and at this point I don't think it will help.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 21:57, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the reference "Workers sell Leslie Controls to raise..." I searched archives and cannot locate the reference. I searched by title, author, company name, and even went to the specific date and page number and there is nothing on that page similar to what is cited. Can you provide a link to where you accessed it?--CNMall41 (talk) 22:53, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I hope you don't mind that I added the links. I do not like to change anyone's comments but think they would be better inline as opposed to me duplicating everything. I also found this which may explain why there was a reference in New Jersey (the last one you cited above that mentions an award) and outside of Florida. Although I am not sure the award contributes towards notability. I am still looking deeper for more so voters can evaluate as a whole. --CNMall41 (talk) 23:08, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.proquest.com/docview/262637776/D0E8E0FD145D41C8PQ/1?accountid=14020&sourcetype=Newspapers The information with it makes a point of the fact it is in the city edition.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 16:46, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - I went through the sources provided and also dug through Newspapers.com, Google News, Google Books again to see if I missed something. This seems to be the only reference that would meet WP:ORGCRIT in my opinion. There are a lot of mentions, routine announcements, employment advertisements, etc., but even these are all regional. I also searched more about its parent company (Circor International) and believe this may be notable. Outside of the coverage, it was publicly traded and even the bankruptcy sources for Leslie Controls is related to the parent (references I find on Circor state that the bankruptcy was to shield Ciror from asbestos litigation it was facing. So while I still do not believe Leslie meets the threshold, I am open to seeing if others would agree Circor is and if a merge into a new page for that company would be a good WP:ATD. --CNMall41 (talk) 23:40, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The only problem at this point is whether the sources are independent or from news sources that are not local. Nevertheless, I keep finding sources that to me establish notability. The statements made in these sources certainly made the company look notable whether or not anyone has done the kind of very specific coverage Wikipedia seems to be looking for. And there's too much detail now to make this part of Circor's article.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 18:35, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And I get that the company saying these details are significant is a problem but don't know how you determine that the company's accomplishments are significant. Newspapers or magazines might have said so many years ago. I can't paraphrase some of the more complicated scientific accomplishments but they certainly look important.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 18:58, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate your point of view. The company seems important to me as well for what they have done. However, we need to look at WP:NCORP standards and I feel they fall short. The "too much detail" could be removed and it summarized in a paragraph under a page for Circor (assuming it is notable - I may wind up creating it anyway after doing so digging to determine if it is or not). At least for now it seems more notable than Leslie Controls. I think best to let others opine in this discussion about Leslie to determine their take on the references meeting WP:ORGCRIT. For the record, they are coverage quite a bit but mainly brief mentions or routine announcements. Regardless of the year, I feel there would be more WP:CORPDEPTH if they were found to be worthy of notice. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:31, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The "too much detail" though is what makes the company significant.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 19:38, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think that is disagreement here. The application of WP:NCORP. It is not about how much a company has accomplished, it is about what sources have said about those accomplishments. The [{WP:CORPDEPTH]] simply isn't here. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:49, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is enough depth here except the minute I saw the statement that each employee at the dinner received a history of the company, I knew they just repeated what was there. So the only issue is independent reporting on those fats which might have taken place earlier and we just can't find it.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:09, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not that it would help but I found this which explains the significance of Leslie train horns. That was the reason I created the article in the first place and someone took that out for some reason. The sources aren't what Wikipedia would call ideal, but I didn't know back then.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:20, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 20:44, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Further input from other editors, as to the above good-faith discussion between the nominator and Vchimpanzee, would be appreciated.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 09:39, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Martin Kabrhel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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I have been unable to find significant coverage of this poker player outside of the stories about his alleged cheating and the alleged investigation into it. The stories from PokerNews are all routine coverage of his winnings/participation in tournaments. Being a high-roller is insufficient to establish notability. voorts (talk/contributions) 17:06, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. The most successful and best known Czech poker player with appearance in mainstream TV shows (more here). I quickly found sources like 1, 2 and 3, and I'm sure there will be more (and not only on the Internet). FromCzech (talk) 18:17, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: The sources provided by FromCzech are interviews and profiles which are far from WP:GNG. I thought the stories of the person's participation in tournaments comply with notability guidelines, as long as it exclusively focuses on the subject and is not an interview (see here for example). ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 14:09, 6 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The first source on pokerarena is not interview or profile. The source no. 3 also is not interview or profile. Source no 1. has some coverage of him next to the interview. Forbes may be a profile, but it is reliable independent source. Other source I just found is pokerman. FromCzech (talk) 04:37, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - one of the most notable active European tournament poker players, with 3 WSOP bracelets, and a handful of well-documented controversial moments. Officially Mr X (talk) 18:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I agree that being a high-roller doesn't alone merit inclusion but if you are a high roller there's plenty good chances you've won some major tournaments - just as in this case. PsychoticIncall (talk) 14:01, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Winning tournaments also doesn't establish notability. Dozens of people get bracelets every year. Most of them recieve coverage only in online poker news. This guy has a little coverage outside of poker news for an alleged cheating scandal that seems to have been quietly dropped or forgetten about. voorts (talk/contributions) 14:43, 10 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 18:52, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: A little bit more input here would be handy.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 09:33, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nightmare Theater (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fairly new article about a non-notable TV show; created by a new editor. No sources; no formatting. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 16:45, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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This was one of Utah's longest running television shows and was very popular. I will be updating sources. As for formatting I will learn and improve the page. Intergalacticlanguage (talk) 17:09, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: I haven't been able to dig up much. There is Television Horror Movie Hosts 68 Vampires, Mad Scientists and Other Denizens of the Late-Night Airwaves Examined and Interviewed that covers the show, but there is no preview available. There's also a whole self-published book The Complete Index to Salt Lake City's Nightmare Theatre which would probably be decent for information, but doesn't contribute to notability. There's this dramatic piece from the Utah Education Network that says someone hanged themselves after watching the program. Other than that, it's just passing mentions like one of my favorite things to do was to curl up with my dad on a Friday night and watch the famed horror movie show starring Sammy Terry (a play on the word cemetery), “Nightmare Theater.” The low-budget series was just scary enough to capture my interest, but not so scary that DCFS needed to be alerted. I'm leaning delete, but I'm willing to wait to see what sources come up. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:31, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I meant to include this note. Fischer
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• Delete, consider redirecting title to Sammy Terry If you want to write about a local TV program, you need the sourcing to back up your claim. You also need to show that it has some enduring notability to it. I do not think that the Salt Lake program has that, after doing a search that would have included Utah newspapers from the last 30 years (allowing me to avoid printed titles in TV listings). However, there is a redirect target for this title...out of Indiana, where a show titled Nightmare Theater seems to have enjoyed a 27-year run at WTTV. The SIGCOV is substantial, and we have an article related to it already. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 18:44, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The Utah show ran from 1962-1982 continuously. Fairly enduring, twenty years. Documentation noted includes television columns noting its popularity. Intergalacticlanguage (talk) 19:05, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Why wasn’t this drafted so that the creator can be helped, instead of having to defend the page at an Afd, which is pretty stressful? Draft, please, if the creator and other users agree, speedy-draft, if such a thing exists. I don’t think that nominating a new page 20 minutes after it was created was the best approach. ’Not ready for Main space”, sure but explain it and draftify is, if the creator is a newcomer/apparently not very experienced contributor, the most constructive path imv. -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 21:48, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Formatted the page roughly. The claim that it was the longest show in Utah and coverage might be enough to Keep this. If not, redirect and merge (in)to KTVX#History please. Very opposed to deletion.-My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 22:41, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: Please note that the Utah TV show in this article is entirely distinct from the Indiana TV show of the same name starring Sammy Terry. The Sammy Terry character was on Indiana TV from 1962 to 1989, occasionally thereafter, continuously makes personal appearances, and still produces web content; Sammy Terry has plenty of reliable sources (print news and at least one book), far beyond what the article currently references. If this article survives, it should be moved to something like Nightmare Theater (Utah), with Nightmare Theater being a redirect to Sammy Terry or a disambiguation page. Vadder (talk) 23:26, 27 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would agree that, even if enough sourcing demonstrating notability could be found, the Utah show is not the primary topic. The Indiana show has much more material to work with. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 15:37, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    I did the initial page, and I believe Nightmare Theater (Utah) would be the proper title. This would avoid confusion with all the other Nightmare Theater and Theatres out there. While the show was broadcast on a Salt Lake City station, it was received statewide. Intergalacticlanguage (talk) 16:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla _{Ohhhhhh, no!} 22:08, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: I've added a hatnote to distinguish the two identically named shows. Moving to a better title, if applicable, can be done once the AfD is closed. Those who !voted to redirect to Sammy Terry, please consider amending your suggestion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 06:50, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist per OwenX to see if further input/existing contributors have anything to add.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 09:26, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Three shows are mentioned as notable on the KCPX (KTVX) page. Hotel Balderdash has its own page. The other two are Fireman Frank and Nightmare Theater. Intergalacticlanguage (talk) 23:04, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Darren Johnson (darts player) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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non-notable darts player All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 08:27, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete: There is only one source and one external link referenced in the entire article, and both lead to a "404 Not Found" error. JustARandomEditor123 (talk) 11:01, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: This article was poorly sourced indeed, unfortunately Darts Database website was shut down, hence those links do not work any more. More links and available references have been provided, this player was (and will be) participating in World Championships and major PDC tournaments, I do not think marking him non-notable is fair here. If anything needs to be improved, let me know. DarthBob (talk) 21:18, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  The article is still poorly sourced as none of the sources are significant coverage. All my warmest wishes, ItsKesha (talk) 21:57, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Please, see the response below: This article was poorly sourced indeed, unfortunately Darts Database website was shut down, hence those links do not work any more. More links and available references have been provided, this player was (and will be) participating in World Championships and major PDC tournaments, I do not think marking him non-notable is fair here. DarthBob (talk) 21:18, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. The additional sources do not contain IRS SIGCOV and/or are routine (e.g. match recaps). Articles from PDC or WDF are not independent. We really want sources that provide SIGCOV of the player's background. JoelleJay (talk) 02:59, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: To continue review of new sources added.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 09:26, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Moonmana (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NCORP. Wikipedia is not an advertising tool and companies must be significantly mentioned in reliable sources. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 08:46, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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  I added more links and deleted information about current game in development (which has no notable cites).

  The links include top MMO news websites about the release of Ultimate pirates by Gameforge (top MMO publisher in the world):

  MMOhuts.com, MMObomb.com, F2P.com, MMOgames.com

  These are the biggest and most notable web sites focused on MMO which can post a news about an MMO game release. And they all posted the news. 37.12.106.21 (talk) 14:04, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: No evidence of notability, all references are user-generated content or simply from automated aggregators, and search yields no articles beyond this.

  MolecularPilot 09:11, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm sorry. Is Yahoo news an automated aggregator? Which search yields no articles? Warmonger123 (talk) 13:18, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ, Are you sure all the links lead to user generated content? There are link to the top MMO news sites with news added by the news website editors, not regular users. The only links which lead to user generated content, are the links to the released web games on top portals for web games. To appear in the list of Armor games, you actually can't just submit your game. Armor games should choose your game to be published there and add your game to their portal and you should sign a publishing agreement to do so. This is not just something placed somewhere what any user can do.

  Please be more specific. So far, it seems like you didn't check the links and wrote your message just by clicking a random one and made a wrong conclusion. Warmonger123 (talk) 13:38, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I searched on Google and the only results that appeared where the Google Play Store page, LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube, official website for the company and there were no results under the "news" tab. I couldn't find anything from Yahoo or those other websites you mentioned. Would you mind linking them? Thanks! :) MolecularPilot 22:00, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Also sorry I thought the other websites in the reference list where just aggregators, if you think that something has to be notable to be listed there I'll trust you because I don't really know much about video games. MolecularPilot 22:27, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The Zionist regime (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Basically another name for the already deleted Zionist entity article Abo Yemen✉ 08:21, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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IGlue (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Not notable. OXYLYPSE (talk) 15:11, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, already brought to AFD so not eligible for Soft Deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:13, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Spring Financial (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Run-of-the-mill predatory/payday lender. "Reviews" are indiscriminate WP:SPIP with no meaningful content. Wikipedia is not the place to host brochures. No indication of any independent coverage, in-depth in reliable sources, in fact there's barely anything beyond the SPIP and the routine "I got predatory loaned to" that all of these have, which, while sad, are not great sources for encyclopedic content. Alpha3031 (t • c) 11:58, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete: Not really meeting CORP. There's the Global News article about someone that wasn't happy with their loan, and this [9] where someone with the company talks about their work model... Not really sigcov in either case. Rest are all PR links. Oaktree b (talk) 15:36, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Not eligible for soft deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Owen× ☎ 12:46, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Darius Yuen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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BLP of a successful businessman and philanthropist lacking in depth independent coverage. Non-notable awards, Forbes and routine coverage of career moves. Does not seem notable. Mccapra (talk) 07:24, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and Hong Kong. Mccapra (talk) 07:24, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete a reasonable search for sources turns up nothing substantial. Yes, he got a 1-paragraph mention in a Forbes Asia list, but I can't see how WP:BLP is met, and no other applicable category Oblivy (talk) 09:37, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources. The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria, which says:

  People are presumed notable if they have received significant coverage in multiple published secondary sources that are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject.

  • If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not usually sufficient to establish notability.

  Sources

  1. Tam, Wai-yun 譚蕙芸 (2010-10-25). "金融猛人海嘯「橫財」打貧" [Financial Tycoon Tsunami: 'Windfall' to Fight Poverty.]. Ming Pao (in Chinese). Archived from the original on 2010-10-28. Retrieved 2024-10-08 – via Yahoo! News.

     The article notes: "跳槽前，阮勵欣已是政券界猛人，在法國巴黎銀行任亞洲部主管，曾參與蒙牛、比亞迪、百盛、長城汽車上市活動。後來貝爾斯登與中信證券達成合作協議，邀請他任亞洲部主管，他認為新工作更有挑戰，於是在2008年2月辭職，詎料一個月後新公司股價暴跌，3月14日他在休假時，收到一個震撼的電話。"

     From Google Translate: "Before the jump, Darius Yuen was already a strongman in the political and securities industry, working as head of Asia at BNP Paribas and participating in the listing activities of Mong Kok, BYD, Parkson and Great Wall Motors. Bear Stearns later reached a cooperation agreement with CITIC Securities, inviting him to be head of Asia. He found the new job more challenging, so he resigned in February 2008. He expected the new company's share price to plummet a month later On leave, I received a shocking phone call."

     The article notes: "他鑽研外國經驗，發現了一種名為「創投慈善」（Venture Philanthropy）的社會服務模式，就是按商業邏輯發掘有潛質的社會服務，替他們籌集資金，提供營運意見。如果阮勵欣以前做的是IPO，發掘有潛質的新公司替它們上市，他現在就是推廣SPO（Social Purpose Organization），找尋有社會效益的機構來投資。他的慈善機構名為「心苗」，至今已贊助了數項在亞洲的社會服務。在上海，他們投放了50萬元人民幣，支持一個為建築物料是否符合環保準則作評級的網站；在南亞，他們正研發一部太陽能電腦，讓學生在偏遠村落也可上網學習。"

     From Google Translate: "He drilled into foreign experience and discovered a social service model called Venture Philanthropy, which is to discover potential social services according to business logic, raise funds for them, and provide operational advice. If Darius Yuen used to do IPOs and discover potential new companies to list them, he is now promoting SPOs (Social Purpose Organizations) and looking for socially beneficial institutions to invest in. His charity, called Heart Seedlings, has sponsored several social services in Asia. In Shanghai, they have invested RMB 500,000 to support a website that rates whether buildings are expected to meet environmental criteria, and in South Asia, they are developing a solar-powered computer that will allow students to learn online in remote villages."

  2. "一周出差四次 兩年未踏九龍" [Four Business Trips in a Week: Two Years Without Setting Foot in Kowloon]. Ming Pao (in Chinese). 2010-10-25. Archived from the original on 2010-10-28. Retrieved 2024-10-08 – via Yahoo! News.

     The article notes: "阮勵欣做了18年投資銀行，他的職業生涯可以用「瘋狂」來形容﹕早上6時半起床，看《華爾街日報》、《金融時報》，午餐晚餐都要見客，其餘時間與各國股市同步呼吸，幸運的話深夜12時可以休息，但間中也會不眠不休2至3天。"

     From Google Translate: "Darius Yuen has been an investment banker for 18 years. His career can be described as "crazy": he gets up at 6:30 in the morning, reads the "Wall Street Journal" and "Financial Times", meets guests for lunch and dinner, and does the rest. Time breathes in sync with the stock markets of various countries. If he was lucky, he would rest at 12 o'clock in the middle of the night, but sometimes he would not sleep for 2 to 3 days."

     The article notes: "阮勵欣9歲離開香港到洛杉磯讀書，在南加州大學會計系畢業後不久，就做銀行家。18年來只關心財經，記者問，香港對你來說是什麼？"

     From Google Translate: "Darius Yuen left Hong Kong at the age of 9 to study in Los Angeles. Shortly after graduating from the accounting department of the University of Southern California, she worked as a banker. In the past 18 years, you have only cared about finance. The reporter asked, what does Hong Kong mean to you?"

  3. Tan, Choe Choe (2022-02-14). "After Hong Kong, Sow Asia founder wants to help spur impact investing in Malaysia". The Edge. Archived from the original on 2024-10-08. Retrieved 2024-10-08.

     The article notes: "In 2008, Darius Yuen founded Sow Asia, a Hong Kong-based charitable foundation that has been supporting early-stage social enterprises intent on scaling their social or environmental impact. ... For the remarkable work he did with Sow Asia — which is still going strong — Yuen was honoured as one of Forbes’ Heroes of Philanthropy in 2011, when he was 41. More than a decade after that, success stories such as HK Recycles Ltd, which provides convenient recycling solutions for offices, schools and retail stores, alongside employment to autistic youths, keep him going. ... Yuen, who is managing director and responsible officer of Zhong Yi Investment Managers Ltd, an asset management company that he founded in July 2018 ..."

  4. Lam, Lana (2011-08-07). "Happiness is sharing your ideas with others". The South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2024-10-08. Retrieved 2024-10-08.

     The article notes: "Another speaker was venture philanthropist Darius Yuen Lai-yan, 41, a former investment banker with 18 years' experience who turned his back on making millions to give back to the community. He spoke of a 'red line' as the point where we make enough money for our basic needs and then everything above that was simply accumulation of desirables not necessities. Yuen established the Sow (Asia) Foundation which provides seed capital for sustainable projects with a focus on environmental awareness and education in design, construction and manufacturing on the mainland."

  5. Waller, Martin (2010-01-21). "Will Kraft's feel for Cadbury clear 2012 hurdle?". The Times. Archived from the original on 2024-10-08. Retrieved 2024-10-08.

     The article notes: "We last came across Darius Yuen when he was about to move from the relatively unscarred BNP Paribas to the doomed Bear Stearns to become head of the equity capital markets group in Asia. Yuen, after “a shift in his own values”, according to his website, tells me that he has now set up the SOW (Asia) Foundation, a Hong Kong-registered charity investing in social entrepreneurs. The first investment is in the producers of a much-needed rating system for building materials in China, which tells architects or whoever how green they are. So proving that some good can emerge out of almost any disaster imaginable."

  6. Articles about him resigning from BNP Paribas Capital Asia Pacific to join Bear Stearns in 2008:
     1. Gopalan, Nisha (2008-03-18). "New Bear Hire Has Bad Timing". The Wall Street Journal. ProQuest 2648659969. Archived from the original on 2024-07-24. Retrieved 2024-10-08.

        The article notes: "Hong Kong banker Darius Yuen must be ruing the day he left BNP Paribas after 14 years with the France investment bank and a Hong Kong brokerage house it once acquired. The former co-head of equity capital markets for Asia at BNP Paribas is on leave before taking a similar post at Bear Stearns at the end of May. The announcement of his new job came out Friday in Asia-hours before word of Bear's financial woes began to spread on Wall Street. The idea was that Mr. Yuen eventually would become head of equity capital markets at the Asia joint venture that Bear and China's Citic Securities signed in October."

     2. "Bear Hires New Asia Markets Executive". The New York Times. Reuters. 2008-03-14. ProQuest 2222392115.

        The article notes: "Bear Stearns has hired Darius Yuen from the French bank BNP Paribas to head its equity capital markets group in Asia, a spokeswoman told Reuters on Friday. ... Mr. Yuen will join in May and report to John Moore, who was named Bear’s Asia chief executive in August. He will assume the title of senior managing director and head of equity capital markets for Asia, according to a company spokeswoman, Jessie Hsieh. Mr. Yuen’s background in equity capital markets shows that Bear is eager to seize a greater underwriting presence in the region after initial public offerings surged in China last year. ... Mr. Yuen had been with BNP Paribas and its predecessor, Peregrine Investment, for 14 years, responsible recently for the bank’s ECM franchise in Asia, according to FinanceAsia, which reported the appointment."

     3. Waller, Martin (2008-03-15). "Let us all raise a glass to Darius Yuen - City Diary". The Times. Archived from the original on 2024-10-08. Retrieved 2024-10-08.

        The article notes: "While we are on the subject, let us all raise a glass to Darius Yuen, who until now worked for BNP Paribus in Hong Kong."

     4. "法巴資深賓架 過檔貝爾斯登" [Senior Executive at Societe Generale Moves to Bear Stearns]. Hong Kong Economic Times (in Chinese). 2008-03-13. p. A16.

        The article notes: "洋名Darius的阮勵欣，在法巴投資行融資部門任職9年，是次跳槽不知是否參與貝爾斯登和中信證券共同在亞洲大展拳腳的計劃有關。不過老杜聽聞，Darius仍需過冷河3個月後才可上任。早前他與愛妻共同開設一間現代畫廊，相信今次終於可以靜下來，一改投行家忙得團團轉的顛倒生活，與太座共同打理心頭好一段日子。"

        From Google Translate: "Yuen Lai-han, whose foreign name is Darius, has worked in the financing department of BNP Paribas Investment Bank for nine years. It is unknown whether his job change is related to Bear Stearns and CITIC Securities' plan to jointly expand their presence in Asia. However, Lao Du heard that Darius still needs to cross the cold river for three months before taking office. Earlier, he and his beloved wife jointly opened a modern gallery. He believes that this time he can finally calm down, change the busy and upside-down life of an investment banker, and take care of his heart together with his wife for a while."

     5. Bei, Hu (2008-03-12). "Yuen Quits as BNP Asia Equity Capital Markets Co-Head". Bloomberg News. Archived from the original on 2024-10-08. Retrieved 2024-10-08.

        The article notes: "Darius Yuen quit as regional co-head of equity capital markets at BNP Paribas Capital Asia Pacific Ltd., the Asian corporate finance unit of BNP Paribas SA, becoming the latest former Peregrine Investment Holdings Ltd. banker to quit the firm. Yuen, 39, left the French bank last week ..."

  There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Darius Yuen to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

  Cunard (talk) 09:56, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per the sources found by Cunard. 1.47.210.41 (talk) 17:06, 11 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Could we get a further review of these sources?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:23, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment thanks for finding these but IMV they are not in depth coverage. They are a mix of routine sector coverage of who’s been hired and fired, and PR profiles. Mccapra (talk) 08:58, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Darius Yuen received significant coverage in international publications and in 2008, 2010, 2011, and 2022. The sources about his resigning from BNP Paribas Capital Asia Pacific to join Bear Stearns were published in 2008 in international publications.

    In 2010, he received significant coverage in the British publication The Times and the Hong Kong publications Ming Pao and the South China Morning Post about his move to philanthropy. In 2022, he received significant coverage in the Malaysian newspaper The Edge about his philanthropic work and post-banking career. There is enough biographical coverage to pass Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria and Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline. Cunard (talk) 23:26, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: For further discussion about the sources presented by Cunard.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 07:53, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Izumi Miyata (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Failure of WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played 232 minutes in Japan's third league. No significant and independent coverage, including in ja:wiki. Geschichte (talk) 07:13, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Japan. Shellwood (talk) 10:12, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 14:12, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. GiantSnowman 14:47, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Not eligible for soft-deletion as a contested prod.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 07:52, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Taishin Morikawa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Failure of WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played 8 times in Japan's third league. No significant and independent coverage, including in ja:wiki. Creator is globally locked. Geschichte (talk) 07:14, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Japan. Shellwood (talk) 10:13, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 14:11, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. GiantSnowman 14:47, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Not eligible for soft-deletion as a contested prod.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 07:51, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yusuke Tanahashi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Very far from meeting WP:GNG and WP:SPORTCRIT. Played 68 minutes in Japan' second league. No significant and independent coverage, including in ja:wiki. Geschichte (talk) 07:15, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Japan. Shellwood (talk) 10:13, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 14:16, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found which show significant coverage please ping me. GiantSnowman 14:47, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Not eligible for soft-deletion as a contested prod.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 07:51, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dining rights (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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1. No Sources 2. Does not have notability Sheriff U3 talk 06:01, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Food and drink and United Kingdom. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:09, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: per WP:NOTDICTIONARY. Search for "dining rights uk" only yields a couple alumni pages on specific universities, not indicating WP:NOTABILITY.

MolecularPilot 09:34, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Ok to delete as the article at the moment lacks citations and appears to be based on original research. No prejudice if the article is completely written in the future citing reliable sources, possibly reframed as the history of dining rights traditions in England (with roots in ancient Greece (?)). If sources are found that discuss it in meaningful depth, that is. JSTOR suggests there may be. Or not. In any case, not a quick fixer-upper. Cielquiparle (talk) 16:57, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

El Taiger (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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I can't find any significant coverage from independent and reliable sources.

the topic of the article seems not to comply with WP:SINGER, not WP:WEB, and just looking at the page shows that it also lacks WP:SIGCOV in WP:RS to comply with WP:GNG Pitille02 (talk) 05:26, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2024 October 12. —^{cyberbot I}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 05:38, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, Cuba, and Florida. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 05:40, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. For precisely the reasons presented in the nomination. Regards, BoyTheKingCanDance (talk) 06:14, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. There is significant coverage. There is a BBC article [10]. There is also coverage before death, in 2022, for instance [11][12][13] He seems a prominent artist. BilboBeggins (talk) 07:18, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The BBC source is about his death, while the others are press releases about an album and tour. Not significant independent coverage. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 16:56, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We don't need the sources and significabt coverage to be before death of a person. BBC article has significant coverage, it has biography. There are also Cuban sources feom before his death. BilboBeggins (talk) 08:29, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. as the article looks now, there is no encyclopedic significance at all. If kept, reliable sources need to me added to the article for notability. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 13:00, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  First I want to mention that the article's notability is about the notability of the topic and amount of significant coverage, not the contents of the article. Second, I added contents. BilboBeggins (talk) 08:30, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete No significant media coverage of his music career, only his death. Death does not automatically establish notability. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 16:49, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Article in Billboard covers his music career: "One of the most popular Cubaton artists (a genre that fuses reggaeton with traditional Cuban rhythms), El Taiger is known for his Cuban-rooted urban sound heard in songs such as “La Historia,” “El Papelito” and “Habla Matador.”" [14] BilboBeggins (talk) 08:38, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. There are reliable sources and there were more more sources, some from reliable sites, which were taken out of the article. Also, the nominator did not tell me about the nomination. Jeanette Lalo Camacho Martin (si?) 19:50, 12 October, 2024 (UTC)
• Delete: A quick online search suggests that subject's death is the only source of significant coverage and, therefore, not "highly significant" according to WP:1E. —CurryTime7-24 (talk) 20:30, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  It is not the only source of coverage, there are sources about his works [15] BilboBeggins (talk) 08:39, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Also Independent article is before his death, it has significant coverage, so it's not One Event case [16]. BilboBeggins (talk) 09:17, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  BilboBeggins WP:BLUDGEON. And for your persistent claims that any notable coverage of the subject existed before his death, it's still not in the article. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 17:36, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  There is a problem that some votes do not use argumentation based on facts, I want to stress this fact.

  I added into article a 2017 Billboard reference about his song featured on the soundtrack of Fate of the Furious, breaking film. On this page I mentioned 2022 references. The Independent article is also technically before his death. There is also an article from today, so the coverage does not stop.

  Reliable sources call artist famous in Cuba.

  There are articles in BBC, Independent, ET about him. BilboBeggins (talk) 20:42, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - I cannot find any source that can be suitable for this article, just promotional content and profiles. 181.197.42.215 (talk) 17:45, 14 October 2024 (UTC) Striking sock !vote. Daniel (talk) 22:23, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Keep - it seems the subject accomplished enough as a musician to pass the notability guideline, but at the same time the fact that so many of the referances in the article are about his death seems to be problematic. This source seems to cover his life more in-depth, will look for other references. It does at the moment seem that most of the citations fail WP:NOTNEWS. Inter&anthro (talk) 01:21, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I've added some content and references from sources that precede his death. Hopefully the article now passes WP:GNG. Inter&anthro (talk) 02:07, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    Thanks for the input. However, content about his religion, family members or his legal issues doesn't explain why the subject is notable as a musician. His discography has no articles, nor is there evidence of any awards or chart/notable label activity. 💥Casualty ^{• Hop along. •} 03:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

    He collaborated with Enrique Iglesias and was part of the soundtrack of Fate of hhe Furious.

    This content prives that there is significant coverage.

    "His discography has no articles" — I am not sure what that means. There are sources fir his works. If you mean that there are no separate articles on his albums, it's not required. BilboBeggins (talk) 22:37, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 05:55, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dipali Goenka (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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A promotional biography of a businesswoman fails WP:GNG and WP:NBIO. None of the sources constitute WP:SIGCOV. Also, Wikipedia is not a resume hosting site WP:NOTRESUME. Also, the entire page is dominated by company references, while her personal references are limited to either WP:ROUTINE or WP:ADMASQ. TC-BT-1C-SI (talk) 05:13, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Businesspeople and India. TC-BT-1C-SI (talk) 05:13, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Women, Maharashtra, and Rajasthan. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 06:13, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment There has been some misleading promotionalism in this article: in Recognition it said "Forbes magazine named her as the 16th most powerful woman in Asia and the 4th in India in 2016", but she was listed 16th in a list which explicitly states "this list -- which is presented alphabetically and is not intended to be a ranking". (I've edited this). This suggests that all sourcing needs very careful checking. PamD 08:11, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Magnet Man (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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promotional..notability in doubt SINGS09 (talk) 03:11, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Barbados. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 04:36, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Disagree with this nomination, particularly no evidence of a WP:BEFORE. The article does need some cleanup but that's no reason for deletion. There is enough coverage, including of awards and platinum sales, from independent sources to meet WP:MUSICBIO. ResonantDis_tortion 09:43, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 02:52, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Awmsawi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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PROD'd with the rationale: Could not find a single reliable source that mentions this placename. NGS Names Server doesn't even have it as a "populated place", their wastebasket taxon of geographic names. Searching the coords in Google shows what's maybe a few houses, but without any reliable sources, even a trivial legal recognition, we can't confirm the place meets GEOLAND.

De-PROD'd with the edit summary "deprod; appears to exist; WP:GEOLAND", which completely fails to take into account that I did address GEOLAND in my PROD rationale. "Appears to exist" based on what reliable sources? None, of course, were added. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 00:39, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Geography and Myanmar. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 02:10, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• delete due to failed verification. GMaps shows a village named "Butlang" at the given coordinates; maybe they are the same but without sources there's every reason not to believe this article. Mangoe (talk) 20:02, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per WP:GEOLAND. Clearly a recognised settlement. Has three churches, which is unlikely for "maybe a few houses". If you zoom out on the map you will clearly see a village labelled Awm Sawi north of Butlang. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:48, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  @Necrothesp, you say this is "Clearly a recognised settlement". Recognised by what government entity, as required by GEOLAND? What sourcing is this assertion based on? Google maps is not a reliable source. You have been on Wikipedia long enough to know that statements such as these ought to be backed up by referring to reliable sources, so please provide some or strike your comment. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 04:48, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I tend to use common sense. Extremely unpopular with some "rules"-obsessed editors, I know. How can a map that shows a village not be a reliable source? Are you saying Google Maps has put a village there that doesn't actually exist? Because otherwise, that's clearly a village! -- Necrothesp (talk) 09:35, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  That's great, but as you know, Wikipedia is based on reliable sources, not vibes. For all we know, that area is part of Butlang, the named place where its coordinates map to. For all we know, the location there isn't even called Awmsawi, perhaps it's called something else and Google has taken the placename from us in an act of citogenesis. We just don't know, and in the absence of reliable sources to verify the content, we shouldn't have an article. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 01:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Google only very recently removed the incorrect name it had for a town I grew up near (I ceased sending in reports about it about 15 years ago). The town is in an Anglophone country. I wouldn't trust anything it has to say about Burma without outside evidence. -- asilvering (talk) 03:18, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Meh. The article is one sentence with some coordinates. The coordinates clearly show an Awmsawi village with local buildings named Awmsawi. I don't know how to do a local search to prove this exists or to even find more information about it considering the non-English script. My hunch is it's eligible for an article but it's not easily proved. SportingFlyer T·C 00:50, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 04:57, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Matupi Township, where I've added info on Awmsawi being one of the Matupi villages designated "red" by the military according to this news article (though Google just translates it as "M." here). I also found the village (အမ်ဆွေး) in a government list of villages of Mutupi Township -- page 73, third table, third entry under the header (Google somehow translates it as "Am sorry"...). JoelleJay (talk) 19:40, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Happily on board with a redirect, thank you for finding those. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 22:57, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Natasha Tambudzai Mncube (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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The article relies on a very limited number of sources, primarily one cited article and a reference to Britannica. Many key details, such as her participation in "Big Brother The Chase" in 2013, her origin, and her personal history, are uncited. A WP:BEFORE search brought nothing out, and the article reads more like a promotional profile than an encyclopedic entry. The article fails to meet WP:GNG. Comr Melody Idoghor (talk) 04:39, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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The supposed reference to "Britannica" is in fact linked to the same Drum (SNL24) article as the first ref. So that there's only one source. It may considered significant although based on an interview but I suppose it's not enough. The awards that she has apparently founded the Shining star Africa awards have received some coverage. Again, is that enough? -My, oh my! (Mushy Yank) 23:07, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Embassy of South Korea, Ankara (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:ORG. Only 2 primary sources provided. A search for sources found incidents like this which don't really add to notability. https://www.turkiyetoday.com/turkiye/south-korean-ambassador-jeong-yeondoo-prefers-yht-for-ankara-trip-539/ LibStar (talk) 03:50, 5 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting. Already PROD'd so not eligible for Soft Deletion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:42, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Extraordinary Writ (talk) 04:05, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. Mccapra (talk) 04:20, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep or Merge an integral part of diplomatic relations between two countries are embassies. These articles cannot be missing from Wikipedia; if they are not notable standalone they should definitely be merged into the main article. For this particular embassy I found some references in the Turkish media - and there will be many more if I search thoroughly. [17] [18] [19] LefterDalaka (talk) 17:32, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tarita Botsman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Tagged for BLP sourcing issues since 2022. Article is largely cited to primary and non-independent sources. Not clear that the subject meets WP:GNG, WP:ANYBIO, or WP:SINGER. 4meter4 (talk) 02:53, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Taylor Rousseau Grigg (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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May not meet WP:ENT or WP:SIGCOV. Minimal sourcing outside of her death. TJMSmith (talk) 01:52, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete I'm not seeing what makes her notable. Her follower count isn't especially massive in comparison to the highest followed on the app, her business ventures aren't notable. Rusted AutoParts 03:13, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  she passed away. This is pretty heartless to delete her autobiography. If you died you would want your legacy to live on. I know her husband would want this to stay up as well. 174.27.213.42 (talk) 07:04, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Wikipedia don't delete you have many other non famous people on here that are minor influences. 174.27.213.42 (talk) 07:13, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree with what is said above. Don't delete this article CallieCrewmanAuthor (talk) 14:14, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep this is an edge case but there is more than passing mention coverage of the subject before her death and certainly after. Nnev66 (talk) 21:49, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting for new sources that apparently exist. The keep !votes should provide the references they think that show notability, rather than simply putting out a carpet term that notability exists.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:39, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Glacier Bancorp (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Does not meet WP:NCORP. Most sources are routine. Badbluebus (talk) 01:03, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Keep. Per WP:LISTED, sufficient independent sources to clear WP:NCORP almost always exist for publicly traded companies. "Examples of such sources include independent press coverage and analyst reports", and that is the case for this company. See the table below linking to recent (paywalled) independent analyst reports from MarketBeat for Glacier Bancorp (GBCI). Dclemens1971 (talk) 13:52, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Date	Brokerage	Analyst Name	Action	Rating	Price Target	Upside/Downside on Report Date	Details
10/2/2024	Raymond James		Boost Target	Outperform ➝ Outperform	$45.00 ➝ $48.00	+7.55%	View Report Details
9/20/2024	Truist Securities		Boost Target	Hold ➝ Hold	$46.00 ➝ $50.00	+6.68%	View Report Details
8/27/2024	Piper Sandler		Reiterated Rating	Neutral ➝ Neutral	$38.00 ➝ $38.00	-17.84%	View Report Details
4/23/2024	Stephens		Lower Target	Equal Weight ➝ Equal Weight	$44.00 ➝ $40.00	+4.49%	View Report Details
4/22/2024	DA Davidson		Lower Target	Buy ➝ Buy	$48.00 ➝ $45.00	+25.28%	View Report Details

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:39, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Climate finance in the United States (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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AI-generated redundant fork of Climate change policy of the United States sourced entirely to primary sources. Flounder fillet (talk) 00:23, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Redirect to Climate policy of the United States Climate change policy of the United States: As a WP:ATD. The article is too low-quality to merge anything. I note that there are several other articles titled "Climate finance in X", some of which might be suitable for merging into more general articles about climate change in their respective countries. Helpful Raccoon (talk) 01:54, 12 October 2024 (UTC) Helpful Raccoon (talk) 01:54, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment While trying to learn more about the WikiEdu program, I stumbled on the WikiEdu Climate Finance campaign which might be the origin of some of these articles. ClaudineChionh (she/her · talk · contribs · email) 08:46, 13 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Hi @ClaudineChionh I'm helping to run this initiative and would be happy to answer any questions you, or anyone else, might have about it. Thanks for all of the discussion. Will (Wiki Ed) (talk) 16:07, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm particularly concerned about Climate finance in Trinidad and Tobago, which was created by an admin who's affiliated with WikiEdu. Its sourcing consists of two primary sources and three other sources that barely even mention climate change and just regurgitate the words of various corporations. Helpful Raccoon (talk) 19:24, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Hi @Helpful Raccoon I am looking for more sources to appear on that article as well. I think those government sources are high quality and an appropriate start. Happy to discuss that more on that article's talk page if you like. Will (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:27, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thank you for the contributions to the article, I am adding wider references that offer an outside view and supporting evidence of outcomes and successes. Netforcarbon (talk) 18:44, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Hi Helpful Raccoon. I appreciate your concern. I created the climate finance in Trinidad and Tobago as a template for how to create articles like these - and to avoid largely redundant articles like this one. I do think this kind of information is important to surface particularly because it's buried in reports. That said, you're right, it's pretty bare bones, that that's on me for not continuing to expand it. Point taken. Guettarda (talk) 22:38, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks for clarifying! One of my concerns is that it's unclear whether these climate finance articles meet WP:GNG. On the other hand, much of this information could be contained in broader articles such as "Climate change in X" or "Climate change policy in X". These articles could be sourced more easily while giving a more comprehensive overview of each country's situation. Helpful Raccoon (talk) 01:29, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thank you for the consideration that the article is relevant to the Climate Policy in the United States which I did feel was another faucet of the topic. I was focusing on presenting a view of climate finance in the U.S. from the Paris agreement commitments and the outcomes of the action which is relevant to policy but I feel a need to present a wider view. Netforcarbon (talk) 18:41, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Helpful Raccoon, Climate policy of the United States isn't an appropriate Redirect target article because it is a Redirect, not an article. It should appear as a green link. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:46, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  Thanks for pointing that out, I meant Climate change policy of the United States. Helpful Raccoon (talk) 05:25, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for reviewing this article, the first version had bullet point and errors in format that I thought was referred to AI format. I have changed the format. Netforcarbon (talk) 18:39, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Netforcarbon To be clear, did you use AI to write this article? Helpful Raccoon (talk) 20:38, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Raccoon not AI to write the article but I do have an AI review and format assistant. I also use an AI editor but the content is from my notes and reviews of other documents on the US commitments and outcomes pertaining to climate finance which is also within my profession. Netforcarbon (talk) 13:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I continued this discussion on your talk page. Helpful Raccoon (talk) 19:15, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• I was alerted to this from the WikiProject Climate Change talk page. I haven't looked at the actual content yet but in general, I am against creating such sub-sub-articles, which usually end up lingering with very low pageviews. Why not rather include some of this content as an example in the article climate finance? Or else within a U.S. specific climate change article like suggested above. Like Climate change policy of the United States or Climate change in the United States.

Also if WikiEdu or someone is organising a drive to create lots of these "climate finance" type articles for specific countries then please alert others through the talk page of Wikipedia:WikiProject Climate change (early on, not just at the end). Thanks to User:FULBERT for the recent alert.

Also, using Chat-GPT (or similar) for language polishing or for ideas for structuring the article is perfectly fine. Using it for actually up to date content generation might be flawed. I am curious to learn how (if) you used AI for this exercise? If done correctly and carefully there is nothing wrong with that. But you'd have to be able to detect hallucinations and wrong information while working with it. EMsmile (talk) 09:55, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@EMsmile I did not use AI to write content but I do use AI for format and for the final review. I will go back to rewrite content. I appreciate the insight to the wikiworld and the community of editors! Excellence in information sharing and climate finance in the Unites States is relevant and needs its own place of explanations that ultimately lead to the transparency of climate actions pertaining to financing. Netforcarbon (talk) 13:08, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, welcome to Wikipedia, User:Netforcarbon. I hope you like it here. My point is that if you want your content to be seen and read, then you might be better off integrating it into an existing article rather than creating a new one from scratch. I don't know if you have discovered the page view graphs yet? You can access it from the top "view history" tab. In general, I recommend to new Wikipedia editors to rather improve and enrich existing articles with higher pageviews rather than focusing on low pageview articles or even completely new articles. You have more impact with the high pageview articles. Also, if climate finance already has quite low pageviews (see here) then what makes you think that "climate finance in country X" would get any more pageviews? EMsmile (talk) 15:22, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Netforcarbon and Will (Wiki Ed). If you are interested, I think a discussion about the campaign on the wp:WikiProject Climate Change talk page could be fruitful. This would be a less stressful and more collaborative environment than AfD. One of my concerns at the moment is this and possibly other articles serving as an uncritical, promotional listing of things that governments and corporations have called climate finance. Unfortunately quite a few things that are labelled climate finance are greenwashing, fossil fuel subsidies in disguise, or just ineffective. If we could start with a broader conversation about your goals and your skillsets, we could help you with things like figuring out what sources to use and choosing high-impact articles to create/improve. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 21:17, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Clayoquot Thanks for that recommendation - I'll post something soon. I also appreciate the greenwashing concern. I think this is exactly why we should be focusing on this area. Separating substantive climate change mitigation action from greenwashing is important. The funding element is also challenging, but its as important as any other kind of legislation. Thanks again! Will (Wiki Ed) (talk) 22:13, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep because the US has such enormous financial clout that the topic seems to me to be notable. US policy and finance are both so influential there should be enough info for two articles. Although they will overlap somewhat not all policy is finance (for example policy can make regulations or diplomacy) and not all finance is policy (for example Tesla was only partly government funded - a lot was private, and much else is private finance e.g. 3 Mile Island). Chidgk1 (talk) 18:21, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, The Herald (Benison) (talk) 02:37, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

April Evans (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Minor concert soprano who appears to mainly work as voice teacher. Her one big credit, the performance with the Opera Orchestra of New York, was as a last minute replacement for a sick singer. The review is not complimentary, stating she sang cleanly but without characterization. She appears to have had a very brief and unremarkable performance career in the 1980s. Fails WP:SIGCOV.4meter4 (talk) 02:35, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Ok to delete. Found several reviews via Newspapers.com which were lukewarm to negative, like this 2004 Star-Ledger review of her performance as Aïda with the Metro Lyric Opera. Does not meet WP:SINGER. Cielquiparle (talk) 18:06, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mary Movsisyan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:SIGCOV. Article is cited to unreliable sources like YouTube, or to sources connected directly with the subject. I could not locate any independent source with significant coverage. 4meter4 (talk) 02:04, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Ludmilla Azova (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG for lack of significant coverage in independent sources. Further the article contains false information. For example, the New York Philharmonic has a meticulous searchable archive (see https://archives.nyphil.org/index.php/search?search-type=singleFilter&search-text=Ludmilla+Azova&search-dates-from=&search-dates-to=) of every performance given by the orchestra during its entire history. Every soloist is easily searchable and will pop up in a search . She gets zero hits in the archive, and never sang with the orchestra. When I looked at the sources much of the content in the article could not be verified to the cited sources (I have a subscription to The New York Times). I placed tags on material not supported by sources. Very little is actually verifiable. I can find no evidence that she sang in operas other than The Consul in New York, and the part she sang was the tiny role of Anna Gomez who doesn't even get an aria. There are no sources in newspapers or books that I could find to verify the La boheme, Madama Butterfly, and Faust performances. I strongly suspect these are also performances that were made up and never happened. Other than her recital review, there isn't any significant coverage on this singer. Newspaper archives didn't have anything nor did google books. 4meter4 (talk) 01:37, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - I support the nominator's expert investigation into the sources, and have little to add to the convincing analysis. Via Google Books I did find a couple of minor announcements for stage appearances by Ms. Azova in the late 1960s but she was only named briefly in long lists of credits. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 13:04, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Umut Camkiran (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Declined G4. According to the declining admin, the previous version of the article was more "expansive". Subject is clearly lacking notability, and no reliable sources have been provided. Fails WP:GNG. CycloneYoris ^talk! 01:32, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Econofoods (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:NCORP. Sources on the page and in a WP:BEFORE do not meet WP:ORGCRIT. With only two locations I am unsure if press outside the local area could be found. CNMall41 (talk) 23:08, 4 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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• Leaning keep as a notable-enough regional Iowa supermarket. Some book sources coming up and listings in Plunkett's food industry and retail almanacs, and the Hoover's Handbook of American Business, Handbook of NASDAQ stocks,. Combined with a few of the local news stories about store closings and acquisitions I think this does pass WP:GNG.[20][21] Andre🚐 01:29, 8 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Andrevan:, sorry, just seeing your comment now or would have pinged you earlier. The two you cited from The Register Mail are both about two local stores closing. In fact, they are basically the same (one from the employee perspective and one from the customer perspective). Neither meet WP:CORPDEPTH for the chain itself. The other two are business listings. Are there any references out there you found that meet WP:ORGCRIT?--CNMall41 (talk) 06:34, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

While I agree those sources might not meet a stricter standard, I think it meets GNG, along with the other local news already in the article, and I'm not sure that merging with Nash Finch or SpartanNash is necessary, but I can't see a full-scale delete beyond that merger, and I think other times when companies have been merged it's muddled up the history in a confusing way that could be resolved by treating as separate articles. A regional grocery chain with not a lot of stores can be notable with sourcing that describes it with a bit of narrative as these local stories do, through a local lens, but aren't ROUTINE or press releases. They describe the acquisition of the chain by Nash Finch. “When Nash-Finch came in, I was working in Monmouth. It was my day off and I got the call at home,” Cecil said. He said he started to suffer from burnout as Nash-Finch “dictated” ways of doing business that he didn’t agree with, such as selling select, rather than choice beef. “I was told they were doing less than half the business we were doing in ’98,” Cecil said of Econofoods when it closed. “It didn’t have to happen.” An unlikely place for business analysis perhaps, but there you go. The other one talks about consolidation in the market. This is corroborated by the business almanacs and Moody's listings and other stuff that come up on a Google Books search. As I said, I think it meets GNG, and I think more data could be found in Newspapers.com which has over 20,000 results in Iowa, but I'm at a keep because I believe GNG-level sourcing exists and more could be found for an article here. Andre🚐 06:52, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your point. However, as a company, it must meet the standards for companies and do not feel that these references do. --CNMall41 (talk) 01:37, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's a stricter WP:SNG standard for what is presumed notable, but any article is notable if it meets WP:GNG. Unless that has changed, the stricter standard is supplemental. Besides which, the purpose is to keep out promotional articles, not the history of regional supermarkets. Notability as a guideline has interpretation, but it's not WP:IAR to use GNG instead of CORP, because it's a supplemental presumption guideline that doesn't obviate GNG. You are free to still opine delete here of course. WP:N: A topic is presumed to merit an article if: It meets either the general notability guideline (GNG) below, or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific notability guideline (SNG) Emphasis mine.Andre🚐 05:43, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Unless that has changed" - That has not changed so you are quoting the SNG and GNG guidelines correctly. It is interesting as I argued this same contention (the one you present here) years ago but the company deletion discussions have, at least for the last four or five years, applied NCORP over GNG which is the reason for my contention to delete this page. Would be interesting to get a consensus otherwise as it would allow for keeping some pages that would be borderline under NCORP but likely meet GNG. --CNMall41 (talk) 19:21, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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Keep per what Andre said. ^Wiinter_U 04:46, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:00, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lalbijo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#Additional_criteria #3 Creative professionals. All he did was create a short film about a man getting water (no dialogue) and all the sources are about the short film [22]. The feature film he directed did not release yet. A simple Google search yields nothing. WP:TOO EARLY. Redirect to The Big Bang (2019 film)?

I thought this source was about him [23] but it only mentions his name (ലാൽ ബിജോ) four times. DareshMohan (talk) 00:47, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Advertising, and India. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 01:18, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yoko Maria (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Article contains zero independent sources with significant coverage. The sources used are all self published or from primary materials closely connected to the subject. Fails WP:SIGCOV. 4meter4 (talk) 00:10, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and Women. 4meter4 (talk) 00:10, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 01:19, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - The article looks like an attempt to prop up a rather average career with exaggerations and flowery prose. She has some concert announcements and recordings, and apparently appeared at Carnegie Hall, but (at least in English) I can find no significant coverage or her career or biography. Also, four concerts in seven years do not constitute a "World Tour". ---DOOMSDAYER520 (TALK|CONTRIBS) 12:51, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Castles and Fortresses of Western Ukraine (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD )

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Not notable, deleted in Ukrainian wikipedia. Шиманський Василь (talk) 06:45, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: only references are user-generated or in databases which include any published book such as Google Books, Goodreads, National Library of Ukraine etc. Searches for the English and original name reveal no evidence of WP:NOTABILITY.

MolecularPilot 09:47, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Architecture and Ukraine. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 11:13, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

History of the Jews in Laos (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Singular source which references the article itself, Laos is apparently the least antisemitic country (because there are almost no Jews there.) This is just not a significant community at all. Gazingo (talk) 21:24, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]