Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Article Rescue Squadron

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I’m surprised how much discussion there is over the Article Rescue Squadron and how much of it relates to "Inclusionism and Deletionism". I’ve been around on Wikipedia a while and I’ve always been aware of the whole "Inclusionist/Deletionist" debate but over time I thought things have settled. I haven’t seen arguments based on them in recent years, probably because they go directly against the "comment on the content, not the contributor" concept (as explained in Uncle G’s comment). It appears that ARS is the last vestige of the debate. Before my decision to close this, I’ve only been peripherally aware of ARS and the controversy surrounding it. Nevertheless, I have read with interest the thoughts of editors here, and expanded my investigation into past ANI threads, TfDs, DRVs, and all sorts of essays on the subject. I should point out also that I’ve specifically not looked at the list of members of ARS, I’ve taken comments at face value – and whilst I can see who’s on what side of the debate, I don’t know who’s actually a member.

Looking first at the “canvassing” problem - The Devil’s Advocate has put forward a very strong position on why canvassing by the ARS would be an issue for Wikipedia, in that it turns AfD into a battleground and stops meaningful debate. This is undoubtedly true, if the audience is a partisan group, or the message is biased. On the other hand, if the audience is not partisan and the message is not biased, then bringing more eyes to a debate should be considered a good thing. Balloonman points out the difference between ARS and other project delsorts – the others aren’t designed to save the article, but to get expert advice.

There certainly is consensus that some canvassing does happen through ARS, those who oppose the stipulation accept it happens and those who support it concede that it happens less frequently than it used to. There is no consensus that The Article Rescue Squadron frequently serves as a vehicle for canvassing keep votes at AfD. As Ironholds put it in “the Template:Rescue TfD, "Extraordinary assertions require extraordinary evidence, and accusing a large group of users of ganging up to sway consensus in their favour is just such an assertion". I don’t see evidence here that this group is ganging up to sway consensus, I see no analysis of the number of debates they list and what happens to those debates – both in article work and AfD !votes. What I do see is both sides picking and choosing examples of where it has or hasn’t happened, which is meaningless.

On The Article Rescue Squadron's project page provides a biased view of the deletion process that favors ideas considered to be inclusionist., it seems that there is consensus that this is true, but also that it is not problematic. Wikipedia is a meeting of many minds, and so it is likely that people with similar ideas will come together. ARS is a project, just like any other WikiProject, and as Milowent succinctly points out, it focuses on articles at AfD. It is not problematic to hold essays related to that concept, especially ones that match the goals of the project – improving notable topics which currently exist in a poor form.

Beyond these points, it’s worth noting that some editors have put forward some views which have been strongly backed. Scottywong’s point that the problem is with a small number of editors in the group not the group itself and Uncle G’s point that "rescuing articles" means more than signing up to a project, were a pair that strongly backed. These views were echoed in the proposals that got backing, Beeblebrox’s suggestion that people who believed the ARS was partisan should join it to help balance it.

Michael Q Schmidt’s suggestion that the Rescue List was changed into a proper delsort received good backing, and should be a way to proceed forward. Hut 3.5’s suggestion that the ARS should rearrange itself to ensure problematic articles were deleted didn’t gain traction as the “concept was flawed”, though it wasn’t wholly rejected. DGG’s suggestion of upgrading WP:BEFORE was interesting, but out of scope of the RfC. It may be worth starting a further discussion on it.

So, in summary:

  • ARS is used for canvassing, but not frequently
  • The project is biased towards inclusion, but this is not regarded an issue
  • Any problem lies with a small number of members, not the group as a whole
  • The project is designed to improve articles, not participate in AfDs, and members who forget this should be reminded
  • Editors who believe that the group has bias are welcome to join it to make it more neutral
  • Michael Q Schmidt’s suggestion of setting up a proper delsort should be taken further.

Hopefully that puts it all to bed. Took me less time than I thought! WormTT(talk) 15:03, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Shortcuts