Wikipedia talk:New pages patrol/Coordination/2022 WMF letter/Archives

Hi MB, I appreciate the effort that has gone into drafting this letter. It's well written. However, I have worked in very close collaboration with Marshall in the past and I know him to be someone who is already acutely aware of the issues surrounding NPP. Nevertheless, even though he has been promoted to overal charge of Growth, his hands are tied when it it comes to the allocation of budgets and engineering staff. The WMF is currently rudderless, practically on their own admission it has no one in overall command and the new CEO and a new 'Chief of Staff' still need to settle in, and the replacement for Toby Negrin needs to find his feet. That said, NPP has been brought to the attention of the BoT and the chair of its technology committee and their responses have shown some optimism and they will be discussing NPP with Ms Iskander.

I am preparing a sequel to my two NPP special reports in The Signpost here and here (please read them - and the reader comments - if you haven't done so already). Lest I make inaccurate claims, as per journalistic courtesy I have requested feedback on this draft article from key people in the WMF and the BoT and I have received encouraging response.

I therefore believe we should hold off putting Marshall and those people under additional stress for a while. Some of my upcoming article hinges on the effect of backlog drives and before I can complete that section, I must wait until you or somebody has revealed the results of the current drive and handed out the rewards. By the time the next Signpost is published, from the undertow of the current off-Wiki discussions I shall know more about the progress on NPP and my report will reflect this. The month will pass quickly and the article in The Signpost will not be without significant impact.

I think here is little to be gained by involving Mr Wales. His talk page is little more than a soap opera of petty grievances, mostly by by 'regulars' at his page. In RL he's quite a busy person and he does read it all but rarely sees the need to respond or to follow up on every link to his name. His powers are limited but at the real-life Wikimanias his keynote speeches were well researched and he is an approachable person. Best, Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 23:55, 29 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kudpung, this does not have to go to Marshall, I just put that there as a "placeholder". You say the need for NPP support has been "brought to the attention of the BoT". My idea was to have this "signed" by as many NPPers as possible. We could give it to them just to show there are many of us at NPP who desperately want these improvements (strength in numbers). I've seen comments elsewhere that the devs are influenced by what readers/editors are asking for (like notifications/TP access for mobile uses). I was anticipating collecting signatures for a month or so. How do you feel if I ask for signatures, just to have this ready if at some point in the future we may think it could be helpful to send it to someone? If your efforts are fruitful and we do nothing with this, so be it. MB 00:28, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

MB,I think that's an excellent idea. I'll add a note to it to the August newsletter which you are of course welcome to edit or even redraft as long as it's kept as short as possible and mainly contains the basic results of the backlog drive. I think the letter to the WMF should then be sent out after reader comments to the article in The Signpost have tailed off. How to distribute that letter is another question. I think there is an official WMF email channel anyone can send mails to, I can't remember, but I think that my article will be a subtle kneejerk to them first. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:53, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kudpung OK. I don't want to change this letter after people start signing it. It is suppose to be from all of us at NPP. Is there anyone else you would suggest to review it? MB 01:03, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

MB, I don't think so. It's been produced by you and Novem as NPP coords with some input from me as quasi NPP 'emeritus' and that will be enough. Too many cooks spoil the broth, and that's what all too often happens on Wikipedia. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:22, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Kudpung, OK, but I do think this needs improvement: most notably actors and business people. I don't see that many business people. More singers/ internet personalities/ etc. - anyone whose success depends on being noticed. MB 01:22, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

MB, absolutely true. I've made a couple of minor tweaks to it but I don't want to override your super draft. I'll take another look at it before our newsletter goes out. Compare the diffs to see what I have changed. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:32, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

MB, I've taken my signature off. I only put it there to show you what it would look like. I'll sign again when I will be further down the list. I don't want to be seen as the driving force - plenty of people are fed up already of my interfering since I retired from NPP ;) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 01:43, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

PS. Jimbo is aware of the challenges surrounding NPP. I spoke to him personally about it each time I have met him (2013, 2014, 2016). Also, I have received feedback yesterday from the former senior developer of PageTriage. He left the WMF during the mass exodus some years ago but he might be tempted to come back as a volunteer and offer some technical input. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:11, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

PPS: MB, Novem Linguae, The replacement for Negrin was announced here. It's ostensibly a job on the very top level of WMF hierarchy and carries (or did for her predecessor) an extremely high salary. She starts on 1 August, but unlike her predecessor she does not already have a background in the Foundation or on Wikipedia. I don't know who is responsible for hiring the key Foundation staff, but it's obviously not through the CEO's office. Off-topic, I'm still also baffled why the WMF's website is a WordPress blog and needs a WordPress.com membership to access parts of it. Is the WMF - mainly a technology driven org - incapable of designing a proper website and hosting it themselves? Is that also why they can't get to grips on NPP? Perhaps one day the entire Wiki will be running on that awful WordPress code. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 00:34, 30 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]