Has the university been contacted with ethics concerns? Has anyone verified that the supervisors have in fact supported this "research"? - David Gerard (talk) 08:52, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- ArbCom told me that they are not aware whether the university or any of the advisors have been informed. Regards, HaeB (talk) 09:08, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- That's a rather astounding display of unethical behaviour. Regardless of how good the tool is, I'd like to see some kind of permban enacted. This was unconscionable, and plain bizarre. — Huntster (t @ c) 10:38, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I can't believe that ArbCom unbanned him! They just endorsed disruptive editing and completely ignored WP:POINT. Any sort of researcher in good conscience should have at the very least contacted somebody from Wikimedia before starting any experiments. bahamut0013wordsdeeds 12:38, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Agreed. This idiot should be treated like any other spammer: His account permanently blocked and his institution reported for the abuse of both our website and their resources. And, as noted, "W." might want to look into an ethics course in his next semester, as he is obviously lacking. Resolute 13:37, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- As ArbCom mention, universities have ethics committees to make decisions on whether this kind of research is acceptable. Either, this researcher didn't get his research reviewed by the ethics committee or the ethics committee at his university is incompetent (he makes good arguments for why the users clicking on the spam needed to believe it was genuine, but he doesn't address the obvious question of why he didn't get permission from either the WMF or the community before doing anything). Either way, it's a problem that needs to be fixed. --Tango (talk) 12:43, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Everything about this user's program, STiki (which really is excellent), his involvement with the global Wikipedia community, and his straightforward follow-up to questions indicates that this was legitimate research from a serious researcher at a serious university. There's certainly something squeamish about the 'I violated your sister so that I could report to you about her vulnerabilities' logic, but, I don't believe the user had intentions except to advance understanding and to engage with the complex issues of the site. It sucks that the test disrupted things. It's worth asking if it's possible to make similar findings without such disruption. But maybe down the road it will prevent a much more serious attack from someone who has less benign motivations. The reality is that the smartest people in the coding community have bigger questions than whether something is NPOV. They want to push the boundaries of open systems, understand our relationship to technology, and ultimately make the whole thing stronger. I'm not suggesting we accept that blindly or give anyone who puts Cialis adds on the mainpage a free pass. But part of this work might make Wikipedia better, and the involvement of technically sophisticated users definitely will. Ocaasi (talk) 13:15, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- This story was the first I've heard of this project, but A.W. is in fact a real researcher who I have met in person. See the STiki papers from this year's WikiSym. -- phoebe / (talk to me) 15:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I normally take a hard line towards spam and vandalism. I am unimpressed with this incident (see my longer comments in a separate section below). Nevertheless, I think Ocassi's comments above are right on the money.
- What's best for Wikipedia and Wikimedia? We indulge in a momentary feel-good flash of retribution and embarrassment for the researcher and his university? Or we find ways going forward to harness the outputs of a talented guy at one of the world's top computer science departments -- someone who has already made valuable contributions before this boneheaded incident? --A. B. (talk • contribs) 15:32, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Obviously, his contributions could be valuable, but the Q&A with him posted in this article isn't very reassuring. The apology doesn't seem very sincere; it has the distinct flavor of "you should be thanking me" rather than "I promise to collaborate better next time." That's not to say I'm suggesting retribution, but I'm not yet convinced he won't just do it again. Powers T 16:08, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Overlooking the actions of an admitted spammer who disruptively abused multiple accounts on the unspoken promise of some nebulous benefit to the project is no better than "indulging in a momentary feel-good flash of retribution". I would like to see a definable example of some good that can come out of this that justifies letting W off the hook so easily. Resolute 16:46, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Lt. Powers, I'm not sure how truly remorsefully he is either but I'm more interested in what he can do for us going forward than whether he's a nice guy Iwant dating a relative.
- As for repeating his actions, he'd have to be an idiot. He just gets "one bite at the apple" [1][2] on this one. If he gets caught again, ArbCom and the Signpost might not be so gracious again in dealing with him discreetly. Even if they were, the community outcry would be so much greater as to inevitably draw unwanted media attention on him, his faculty and his school. No faculty adviser or future employer takes risks on people that'll embarrass them. Even if he covered his tracks better in the future, he'd still have to present his data and methods to his faculty -- they would not appreciate his having risking their reputations. They know any trail-masking scheme might fail and plenty of smart computer science experts also volunteer here. Too, major research universities have layers upon layers of oversight and disciplinary processes dealing with research integrity -- they'd not want the aggravation of tangling with them. (His school has labyrinth of web pages on the topic; a small sample: [3][4][5][6][7][8][9])
- So what might "assume good faith" mean in this case? When I get in deep trouble, I become guarded in my remarks, too. I'm embarrassed. I'm running scared. I'm reluctant to go on the record until I know what to say.
- For all we know, he may not even have had a chance to talk to his faculty. Or they may be telling him what to say and what not to say.
- The ball's in his court -- let's see what happens after the dust settles. --A. B. (talk • contribs) 17:28, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Resolute, the best predictor of what he can do for us in the future is what he's done for us in the past before this incident; see the comments by Ocaasi and phoebe above about the sophisticated tools he's developed for Wikipedia (with support from his school) and his presentations to Wikimania and/or WikiSymposium (not sure which or if it was both). I think he's a safe bet not to cause problems again (see my comments above) and likely to continue doing good stuff for us going forward. --A. B. (talk • contribs) 17:35, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The perpetrator's remarks are more apologia than apology. I don't believe he gets it, but it may still be hoped that rational self-interest will lead him to behave responsibly notwithstanding. ~ Ningauble (talk) 18:08, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone who thinks that it's a "vulnerability" that Wikipedia can be edited freely should be banned forever, no matter how many college degrees they have. This is like someone stealing all the change from the charity jar to demonstrate how "weak" the honor system is. I see nothing but a fundamental lack of clue, along with demonstrated malicious behavior. Gigs (talk) 19:11, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
If the University of Pennsylvania institutional review board approved this, then I say we should let it go. If it is exempt from IRB jurisdiction then were at least the two faculty advisers who were “aware of [your] motivations in these experiments” briefed in detail on what you were planning to do before you did it, and did they approve of the actions themselves (rather than merely the motivations)? Bwrs (talk) 05:10, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- University research that involves large-scale social provocation must be endorsed by the institution's human ethics committee. This requirement, and that such endorsement is necessary but not sufficient before conducting the research, should be made clear to the instigators. Tony (talk) 07:53, 22 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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