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I have no problem with the new opeining definition Ed put in, but given that definition, which specifies "ethnic and nation" groups, the following sentence is a non sequitor:
- International treaties have narrowed the scope of the term, excluding extermination campaigns against political or social targets.
The dictionary definition and the original definition specify ethnic and national groups, so there has been no"narrowing." The discussion of attempts to expand the definition is of course a legitimate and important issue, and belongs later in the body of the article. Slrubenstein
Time for some good old-fashioned samizdat right here in the intellectual Gulag we call the United States of America:
The following I originally wrote here, on Wikipedia, and subsequently copied to a discussion forum, which you will find at: http://www.guerrillanews.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/postlist.pl?Cat=&Board=state&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0
America's Intellectual Terrorism: genocide denial
The Islamist terrorists exploit the yawning rift of America, to our ultimate ruin (as long as we remain a profoundly *dis*united people). I paste the following post, which I made to the Wikipedia online encyclopedia
article "Talk:Genocide" (I encourage readers of GNN to read and edit articles on Wikipedia) here:
The article "Genocide" fails to mention the Taiping Rebellion, in which, it is estimated, twenty millions of people were slaughtered in the latter half of the 19th century. There are also: the problem of the other "politically correct" (a term coined by the Communist Chinese)
- The term "politically correct" was not originally coined by the Chinese communists. Slrubenstein
- Is that a fact. Who did, then? mailto:[email protected]
Ok, here's the straight dope: Wordorigins.org, the letter p However, in the sense of dogma, enforced correct thought and speech, it originated in religion and found purchase in authoritarian political ideologies such as Marxism, so in that sense, the notion exists in China, whatever jargon they use to express the concept. Fredbauder 13:19 Oct 19, 2002 (UTC)
omission of abortion; infanticide by the Chinese as stated policy, by America as defined-away practice; the destruction of Iraq's infrastructure in 1992 and subsequent and ongoing death by starvation and disease; the Johnson/CIA overthrow of Sukarno and slaughter of an estimated million people in Indonesia in 1965; the killing of many tens, perhaps hundreds of millions through genocides by war, dislocation, starvation, and disease which accompanied the European, American, and African slave-traders' exploits and the conquest of Latin America by the European Great Powers, over centuries; the centuries-old and continuing usury of banking, today through institutions such as the World Bank, IMF, and WTO, which results in genocides by economic, social, and agricultural dislocation, conflict, starvation, and disease; the prosecution of wars and World Wars (and the inculcation of the masses to believe that such wars are not only inevitable but desirable) by, through, or at the behest of these financial institutions and/or by the instruments of state power; intellectual genocide, wherein an anomalously aware schoolchild, for example, if he or she dared to stand up and say that the American people, by indolent ignorance or inculcation and indoctrination, are *complicit* in these ongoing crimes; further, that the crimes are compounded and perpetuated by such ingenious devices as renaming the violent or unlawful expulsion of governments, which once was called coup d'etat or violent overthrow, so that now it is called the innocuous, even beneficent "regime change" and the culture embraces the idea and champions the violence which necessarily attends it; further, that what was once covert because its perpetrators knew it was wrong, as in the case of the violent overthrow, with CIA help, of the duly elected Chilean government of Salvador Allende in 1973 (the war crimes of the coup and carnage/genocide in Indonesia, 1965 were more effectively covered up by Johnson and the CIA, so that today they are rarely aired) the ruling elite and the shapers of culture can now, over the smoking grave of intellectual genocide, laud and rewrite such a crime as a shining example of "regime change,"...that child, (or teacher, worker, elected official) would face, at the very least, ostracization, and possibly expulsion or worse; the ongoing setting of the stage, through the hideous hypocrisy of U.S. sponsorship of "Truth Commissions" around the world, enabling the U.S. to stand apart and above as an unindictable judge of past genocides and perpetrator of those to come...these form the short list from a much larger category which the subject of genocide should include but in the currently dominating culture cannot, for it relies on lies, half-truths and distortions for its very existence, right down to this destined-for-deletion post (which I have taken the liberty of copying for posting elsewhere to document and demonstrate my point).
It does appear that the Taiping Rebellion might be considered genocide although it was also a civil war, but it was a civil war over the activities of a religious group. I'm not up enough on it to defend adding it to the article, but feel free. By the way, only in the most egregious cases is anything removed from the talk pages of an article. As to all of the other stuff, you just need to think about where each of those facts fits into wikipedia and do it. Fredbauder 16:00 Oct 18, 2002 (UTC)
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Last month, a band of Lendu stormed into a hospital with many Hema patients. They walked up and down the aisles cutting patients up in their beds. When they were done, about 1000 people had been killed. This was reported in the latest Economist, though I couldn't find the story anywhere online. So today, one group can murder 1000 people in a hospital, and no one will even hear about it. This was in Congo, by the way. Just another day in Congo, it seems. I thought of adding an entry to the genocide article: "Congo, 2002: Everyone killing everyone else, 50,000 dead."
But I had another idea that might be better and suited to Wikipedia. Once upon a time I started a page called Indian Massacres where anyone could add documented cases of Indians being massacred by the US government. I figured we could compile all known cases and end up with a accurate tally. There are questions about the methodological validity of this project, but I thought it was an interesting thing to try.
Could we do something similar with present day genocides, democides, etc.? Everytime there was a massacre of some sort we could add it to our page and create a running tally of how many people are being killed by government action or willful inaction. One purpose of doing this is to make it much harder to kill 1000 people in a hospital without anyone noticing.