Talk:Hate group/Archive 1

Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 → Archive 5

Texture (revert - AntiDefemation League as a hate group? Jewish-Russian mafia?)


Yup, the ADL is a "hate group", as defined in your opening statement, as is the Jewish-Russian Mafia.

"A supremacist -- of whatever race -- is distinct from a 'separatist.' A separatist may believe that his race is superior to other races in some or all characteristics, but this is not his essential belief. The separatist is defined by his wish for freedom and independence for his people. He wishes them to have their own society, to be led by their own kind, to have a government which looks out for their interests alone. The separatist does not wish to live in a multiracial society at all, so he naturally has no desire to rule over other races -- since such rule necessitates the multiracial society the separatist wants to avoid at all costs.

A supremacist, in contrast, demands a multiracial society, since it is the supremacist's express wish that he dominate or rule over other races in such a society, such rule often being justified by a doctrine of racial superiority."


Hence, "David Gerard", in all of his POV reverts is both a "Jewish Supremacist" and a "lying hypocrite". What else isn't new? 

Texture (revert more vandalism by same user)

Vandalism? Since when is the NPOV truth, vandalism?

Only your own POV reverts are "vandalism".

Only the first paragraph has a NPOV.

If you want to "name" any "hate groups", then you must add ANY that actually fit the definition given in the opening statement.

The ADL, JDL, and the ethnically "Jewish-Russian" Mafia, all DO qualify, with any NPOV, under that exact same definition given in the opening paragraph or in that opening statement.

No, you can give examples that are clear and leave out what is disputed. - Texture 21:45, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I am disputing "everything", whether you think the "examples" are "clear" or not. You must maintain a NPOV or ANYTHING goes that "fits" the definition!

Ahoerstemeier (Reverted edits by 24.45.99.191 to last version by Idril)


The article will continue to be reverted until and unless it is NPOV. If you do "name" some groups, then, you must allow others to "name" any others, in keeping with the WIKI NPOV.

How many accounts are you using to sustain this deletion of valid text? (and it is valid text despite your opinion) - Texture 22:13, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I notice that you are taking your rant to its own article: Racist hate speech. - It should be deleted. - Texture 22:21, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)


The text is not valid because it does not maintain any NPOV. What kind of rant is Racist hate speech when I am only insisting upon the Wiki NPOV? Curious.

I can only say that your idea of NPOV seems to differ from that of the rest of us. Perhaps you should start your own encyclopedia? - Texture 18:34, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)


Maybe what you mean by the "rest of us" is that all those that don't have to follow your own Wiki rules? Maybe I should fight to maintain what JIMBO wanted with NPOV, NO Selfishly Subjective and Egotistical Egoist CABALS controlling it?

When you get Jimbo to weigh in on your edits, let me know. So far, you have no support at all. - Texture 19:00, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

You think so? If JIMBO himself doesn't believe in his own policy of NPOV, what is the point?

Please don't take my comments out of context. If you are unhappy with Jimbo or Wikipedia... - Texture 19:17, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Either you support the Wiki NPOV or you don't. Obviously, you don't, and that is hardly taking anything out of context.

Before "reverting" anything, ask here first! Thanks! :D


Vogel Vandalism???? What Mirv just removed was NOT vandalism. Actually, I think it was a quality edit. If you are going to persecute Mr. Vogel, I am going to have to ask you to do it carefully. It is unacceptable to revert a quality edit, and even worse to put an innaccurate, slanderous flame into the edit summary. Sam Spade 19:51, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)


He deleted valid information without explaining why he did so. That is vandalism. If you consider undoing his damage to be "persecution", well, I'm sorry. --No-One Jones 19:55, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I don't consider what he did to be "damage" I view it as a quality edit. What he removed was clearly (in my eyes) POV. What he did was make a quality, NPOV edit, IMO. You may disagree, but calling what he did vandalism was frankly not only innaccurate, but not a good sign for your case against him. I am looking into his case officially now, as a members advocate. If I continue to find examples such as this, rather than actual vandalism, I will become increasingly displeased. You may have a valid case against him, don't let this become a witch hunt. Nazi or no, he must be treated fairly. We cannot allow our pursuit of truth and justice to become mired in mere ideological conflict. Sam Spade 20:03, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Strange, because you also reverted the particular change Vogel made that you are now talking about. (i.e. him deleting "thereby assuring the ultimate demise of his Monistic Alliance.") And what does this have to do with Wikipedia:Office of Members' Advocates? - snoyes 20:32, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I made a revert, apparently an erroneous one. I did so based on numorous other edits thruout the article which were innaccurate (look to my edit summery). As to what this has to do w my being a members advocate, I assume you are contesting my role due to Paul not being a member. Unless you clarify, I am going to disregard the second question as spurious. Sam Spade 20:49, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

"Membership is open to anyone who wishes to help members who are faced with the quickly developing mediation and arbitration processes that are being implemented on Wikipedia in the last few months (since the fall of 2003)." There is no mediation or arbitration going on here, so why do you feel the need to point out the fact that you are "officially" looking into this in your role as a member of Wikipedia:Office of Members' Advocates? - snoyes 20:56, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Because I reccomended to Mirv elsewhere that he take his complainst to wikipedia:conflict resolution. Also, I don't see what you are quoting above as in any way limiting my abilities to be officially helpful in helping Paul. To be frank, I feel there is a valid case against Paul, but I also feel he is being treated unfairly, and is redeemable. Sam Spade 21:00, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Edited article to maintain a Wiki NPOV verses any biased POV, against any particular organization or group.

"A supremacist -- of whatever race -- is distinct from a 'separatist.' A separatist may believe that his race is superior to other races in some or all characteristics, but this is not his essential belief. The separatist is defined by his wish for freedom and independence for his people. He wishes them to have their own society, to be led by their own kind, to have a government which looks out for their interests alone. The separatist does not wish to live in a multiracial society at all, so he naturally has no desire to rule over other races -- since such rule necessitates the multiracial society the separatist wants to avoid at all costs.

A supremacist, in contrast, demands a multiracial society, since it is the supremacist's express wish that he dominate or rule over other races in such a society, such rule often being justified by a doctrine of racial superiority."