Talk:Nazareth Hall Preparatory Seminary

Nazareth Hall Preparatory Seminary is currently an Education good article nominee. Nominated by ~Darth StabroTalk/Contribs at 19:40, 16 October 2024 (UTC) An editor has placed this article on hold to allow improvements to be made to satisfy the good article criteria. Recommendations have been left on the review page, and editors have seven days to address these issues. Improvements made in this period will influence the reviewer's decision whether or not to list the article as a good article. Short description: High school seminary in the United States

This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Nazareth Hall Preparatory Seminary/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Darth Stabro (talk · contribs) 19:40, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: It is a wonderful world (talk · contribs) 20:17, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nice little historical article to continue my clearance of the education GANs. I look forward to reviewing! It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The lead is extremely short for a GA. I haven't read the article yet, but I think it should at least also include:

• Its purpose
• Why it was closed
• Its popularity/attendance

Lead sections should "the opening paragraph summarizes the most important points of the article" according to WP:BETTER/GRAF1. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y The lead looks much better now. Just one minor point: Link "Saint Paul". It is a wonderful world (talk) 21:58, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Changed that around a bit because it's technically in current-day Arden Hills - which is now linked. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 22:32, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y Prior to the founding of Nazareth Hall, high-school and early college-aged seminarians for the Archdiocese of Saint Paul were educated at a number of institutions: This implies that this was not the case after Nazareth Hall was founded, but is it really true that all the high-school and early college-aged seminarians immediately went to Nazareth Hall? It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, according the Kaydet yearbook citation I just modified, all 140 eligible students immediately transferred - at least from the College of Saint Thomas. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 01:53, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From the College of Saint Thomas only, versus all the eligible seminarians in the Archdiocese is a big difference. Do we have any more sources for this, or can it be reworded to mention the 140 seminarians transferring, without making extra implications? It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:28, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Rephrased in a way that I think should work. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 22:20, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good It is a wonderful world (talk) 12:29, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y personally tutored: Conciseness and neutrality It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y minor seminarians for the Diocese: Already mentioned and obvious enough anyways. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 01:58, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y were educated there or at other seminary institutions in the United States or in Europe [abroad] It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Here I meant to cut everything I have written in strikethrough, for conciseness. It is a wonderful world (talk) 21:58, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Generally I read "abroad" as being in a foreign country, while not all seminarians were in fact overseas for their studies. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 01:54, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fair, cutting everything sacrifices precision for conciseness, and since we are talking without complete precision anyways ("most minor seminarians were educated there"), I think it is a worthwhile change. However I am happy for it to stay the way it is too. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:20, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y However, Thomas Grace hoped that eventually a dedicated college: The "however" links Grace's hopes to the previous sentence, however the previous sentence happens a year later than Grace buying the land, so they could not be linked. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y purchased forty acres on the shores of Lake Johanna with the hope it would eventually become a seminary [for that purpose] It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y of its time in that it functioned as a sort of [, functioning as a] combination [of a]: Conciseness, formality, precision. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y Link "Theological seminary" and "minor seminary" so the reader can find out the difference if they wish. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 01:57, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y Austin Dowling became [the] Archbishop of St. Paul It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y The architects were Maginnis & Walsh of Boston.[1] The seminary was completed and dedicated by September 1923.: Joining these sentences with an "and" would improve flow. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y aspirants to the priesthood -> "students" It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good :)

Y Its peak enrollment [was] in 1962 with 270 in the high school and 89 in the college.: Shouldn't this also be in the operation section? It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y Link "Crypt Church" It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y "Numidian" It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y Link "apse" It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y What does the title "Heiress" mean in this context? It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y Use {{Translation}} as in Rita Cetina Gutiérrez for translation. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y All direct quotes always need inline citations Wikipedia:INLINECITE It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 01:57, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y Per MOS:CONFORM, all caps should be removed. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y Link "triptych" It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 01:57, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y Link "Archangel Gabriel" It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 01:57, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y Many of these are unsourced or have unlinked sources that are really hard to find. All need to be at lease sourced. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[6] and [20]: Links just link to the main database search. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what to do with this as I wanted to indicate that they can be found in that database, but there is no way of directly linking them. Any ideas? I couldn't find an appropriate template parameter. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 20:40, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see how this is a bit of a pain, I just realised the URL doesn't even link to the database search, it links to the company which created the database. Is there a way you can at least link to the database search? If not, remove the link since it serves no use. It is a wonderful world (talk) 22:03, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It actually looks like the URL has changed! Seems the university switched to a new publisher. Fixing that now. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 01:37, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Great! Looks good now. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:16, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y It's a bit weird only having [20] quote the source in the references section. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y [22]: Shouldn't cite bible gateway, it should cite the bible version, with a link to bible gateway. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is difficult as I'm trying to specifically cite the two Bible versions being quoted in two different languages; any ideas? ~Darth Stabro^{Talk/Contribs} 20:46, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the best way would be to have two citations, one for each bible version. It is a wonderful world (talk) 22:00, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally it would be helpful to have "Directly above the door is the [Latin] inscription" in the text. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:15, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 22:34, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm working on a solution here, because existing citation templated for the Bible don't have the ability to do the Vulgate translation. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 22:38, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think I've figured out a solution. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 22:43, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good now. It is a wonderful world (talk) 12:29, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y [23, 26]: Bare foreign URLs, extremely vulnerable to link rot. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Almost all either published historical books or newspapers, all seems reliable. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Before doing the spot check, I am going to wait until the Internet Archive allows logging in, so I can check the highly used reference [2]. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately it is still not allowing logging in yet. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:14, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've found a different URL, from the publisher itself, allowing free access. It should be linked now. Additionally I added the individual page numbers so they'd be easier for you to find. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 22:33, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Awesome, will spot check later today. It is a wonderful world (talk) 12:29, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My sincere apologies for taking so long on this. I have begun the spot check below. The last two days have been very busy for me. It is a wonderful world (talk) 00:51, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Darth Stabro, I have finished the initial spot check. There seems to be a lot of problems, but that may be because I picked the medium-large references to check. It is a wonderful world (talk) 10:58, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Goodness, embarrassing for me! I put in most of the legwork on this article a few years ago so I may have been a bit sloppier than I am now. I'll get on it. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 14:43, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[2a]: Page number seems to be incorrect on this, though the last bit of the text is supported

Reworded

[2b]: Same as [2a], the latter part of the paragraph is supported but not the beginning.

Reworded

[2c]: Everything is supported except "Following Bishop Ireland's death in 1918"

Added source

[3]: Again, the first parts are not supported.

Added source

[2d]: Y

[4a]: Y

[6]: I think the phrasing "The redirection of diocesan funds and the withdrawal of minor seminarians had a major negative impact upon the still-young College of Saint Thomas" is not neutral enough, the source doesn't describe the impact as negative, and it could be viewed as a positive change.

Rephrased

[5c]: "In its first year, there were 125 students" is supported by page 662, not 489.

Fixed

[5d]: Page number?

Remove, rephrased so all info found in the following source from The Catholic Spirit

[5b, e, f]: Y

[11a, b, c]: Is it possible for you to clip these, so they are freely available (like this)?

Done, for all newspapers.com sources used in the article

[5g]: "six buildings in one." is supported by page 452, not 259. First part is unsupported.

Fixed

[5h]: Mostly supported, except the name "Our Lady of the Annunciation Chapel".

Fixed

[5i]: Page?

Changed ref

[20]: Y

[21a]: Y

[25]: Later credentials unsupported.

Source added

[26]: Y

It follows the structure of other good and featured articles on schools. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think some would argue that the background and founding sections are too long, but I personally like how they aid understanding. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

32.0% on Earwig, no too close paraphrases detected. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's great to see so many images in the article, many of which you contributed yourself. It really adds to the article. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y The final image should not be in the rectors section, but where the the stations of the cross decor is mentioned. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"baldachin" could be linked. I didn't know what it was before coming across a link to it later in the article. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following points are not needed for GA promotion, but are somehow related to the article. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems like this should be in Wikiproject Schools. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y Most other articles have the notes section above the references section. Not sure if this is something you considered. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y Consider linking any unlinked references, it makes it so much easier for the reader to verify information. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y {{Inflation}} is a great template for adding a conversion to modern money that will automatically update. This would help understand how much $1,280,000 and $500,000 really was back then. It is a wonderful world (talk) 20:24, 25 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]