Talk:Satellite Spies/Archive 1

Archive 1Archive 2

I updated this article, based on recent news about the fraudulent trademarks issue with the videos on YouTube. Excerpts of a recent interview with the original frontman of the band have been published by a leading music industry consultant, which places much of the information that was originally on this page in doubt.

Specifically, the sidebar claims that Satellite Spies have been active from 1985 onwards, when this is actually disputed. The other questionable sign from this page (ie: that it may have been written by someone who is actually involved with the band) is the strange sentence, which states the actual trademark numbers. Why would anyone feel the need to make note of the actual trademark ids in the text here, unless they were trying to convince themselves that the band had some authenticity?

219.89.72.167 (talk) 02:57, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

I've made some rather dramatic changes to the article based on the references I've been able to find (which have been few). For the time being, the majority of the text is based on an interview of the frontman - I will be trying to track down additional references, especially those from the time when the band was active. I've also removed the disputed tag since I believe that the changes likely resolve the concerns that led to the tag - if I'm wrong or there's still something fishy about the article, please just let me know or feel free to put the tag back. Shell babelfish 00:51, 8 June 2009 (UTC)


I reverted back to Shell Kinney's last version because Reactionaryprinciple had added back the same type of slander into the article that he had inserted earlier on - and Shell Kinney had spent considerable time removing and repairing the damage. Boatie62 (talk) 07:46, 8 June 2009 (UTC)
Due to the nature and content of recent posts by DunedinYoh, I strongly suspect that person is Reactionaryprinciple (who was previously blocked from edits on this topic). I am reverting DunedinYoh edits on this topic because I know them to be incorrect, unsubstantiated and defamatory to a living person. Boatie62 (talk) 21:40, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

I edited this page because the article has indeed been a fabrication from inception; this being said - just because an individual makes a statement or a claim does not mean that this statement is true.

'Evidence' is offered here in the form of 'formal' record documentation; both Crown-based and/or other evidential information keeping; such as, a local 'New Zealand' Music Encyclopaedia Directory; as shown in the external links of the article. IMPORTANT NOTE: There is NO historical record of any objection being filed/lodged or received to any of the governmental intellectual property offices within the countries of registration during the past 25 years. Other internet organisations 'Senior Legal Executives' of U-tube, Google and i-Tunes, are currently engaging in communication with 'Intellectual Property Holders' for the purposes of removing use of said trademarks from the infringers work. PS: It is publically well known within New Zealand that during the 1990's and up to the mid/late 2000's Satellite Spies performed and recorded for many many years without any topic of conversation such as this. All of a sudden, during the past few years, an internet campaign focused upon multiple websites claiming to tell the truth utilising slanderous and misleading comments have emerged. It would appear very simple - in that, if Mark Loveys feels he has any rights to the said trademarks - he should challenge them in Court. However - for over the past 25 years he has NOT done so. It would seem obvious - therefore, I rest my case.

NOTE: NO, I am not reactprincipal as suggested by Boatie62 — Preceding unsigned comment added by DunedinYoh (talk • contribs) 06:19, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

I request that the version of the article by DunedinYoh currently on view be reverted to the version that was researched, validated and written by Wikipedia moderator Shell Kinney on June 8th 2009. My primary reason for this request is that the current version contains libellous, incorrect and unsupported statements about Mark Loveys, who is a living person.

Trade Marks are not relevant to this article because it is about a band that operated in the 1980's, before the Trade Marks in question were secretly registered. Mark Loveys has not bothered with the expensive process of getting the trade marks overturned (yet) because he has been professionally advised that they are not worth the paper they are written on (due to the dishonest way they were filed) and he has no interest in using the name Satellite Spies other than in referring to the 1980's band, its history, songs and videos - that were all recorded before the Trade Marks were registered.

Anybody wanting to verify the validity of my argument should read the legal advice given to Mark Loveys by his specialist IP lawyer - Google search on "Satellite Spies Wayne Hudson". For history of this argument, read the email to Mark from the band's record producer, manager and owner of Mandrill Recording Studios, Glyn Tucker, by Google Searching "Satellite Spies Glyn Tucker". Boatie62 (talk) 08:03, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

For an article about a band, the fact it is recommending searching for specific copyrights to back-up claims of fraud is ridiculous. This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a soap-box for an angry fan. I agree, it should be edited or reverted. 83.70.170.48 (talk) 08:11, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

I think it imperative that the ex-member Loveys last performed with this band during the late 1980's; while this Sutherland guy published compositions during the 1990's, and in particular 1999 to high commercial success. I believe this article to be reasonably accurate - upon further investigation through various web-pages; it appears there is an attempt to portray that Sutherland quit the band. However - I did find an interesting newspaper article, originally published in the North Shore Times, in Auckland North, dated Tuesday the 29th of September 1987; in which Sutherland was interviewed (by a Michael O'Keef), which states "Deane Sutherland is the frontman for leading rock group, Satellite Spies). It would seem clear that Sutherland never quit this band; because this date is over six months following Loveys claim that Sutherland had quit the band in early 1987; this misinformation has been spread by some web-based propaganda - that appears to be linked to Loveys through association. In view of these events and records, I feel strongly that this article should stay as it is; and be protected from being subject to ongoing malicious editing to project misleading misinformation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.37.160 (talk) 10:41, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Sutherland does not appear in 3 of the Satellite Spies videos shown on YouTube that were recorded in the late 1980's. This would indicate that he left or quit the band at that time.

27.252.68.243 (talk) 11:42, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

No he wasnt because thats not the original band. Sutherland was touring Australia with Satellite Spies. Loveys made up another band and used the name which belongs to Sutherland. Hence the comment on you tube "Who are these guys? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.37.160 (talk) 23:42, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

A most fascinating palaver, I must say; I was so curious, with regard to this matter – I have executed my own investigation in the historical record. I have not been able to find any formal music industry record of Mark Loveys being with the band since the mid-late 1980’s. The only record log of ‘Satellite Spies’ with (R.I.A.N.Z.), and contemporary media outlets is Deane Sutherland (alias - Tommy Joy) being promoted as ‘Satellite Spies’ during the 1990’s and early-mid 2000’s. Well known New Zealand magazines, such as 'Rit it Up' and 'NZ Musician' also have featured adverts or editorials on Satellite Spies in 2009/2010; wherein Deane Sutherland is in the promotional photograph - while Mark Loveys is nowhere to be seen. I also contacted a Music Producer listed in the article, within the external links, as it stands; a Mr Bruce Lynch – whom stated he is presently arranging and remixing material with Satellite Spies, and that he hasn’t had any dealings with or heard of Mark Loveys within the music industry since the mid-late 1980’s. Being further curious, I tried to search on the net, that ‘North Shore Times’ article highlighted within an earlier comment, in this ‘Talk Page’; I wasn’t able to locate it – so, being rather frustrated I went to a North Auckland library and found it in the newspaper archives; it states, as previously quoted, that the Front Man of ‘Satellite Spies’ is a Deane Sutherland (and it is dated late 1987). Loveys appears to have created the rumour that Sutherland quit in early 1987 – this appears misinformation, and coupled together with other falsities generated and promoted by Loveys through the internet. I also telephoned some News Media (in particular the ‘Sunday News’ & ‘The Sunday Star Times’) and spoke to the sub-editor; a Mr Neil Reid – he confirmed during the 1990’s and 2000’s, Deane Sutherland was the driving force behind the band, and furthermore, that Mark Loveys has not been with the musical group since the late 1980’s. He also, that he is surprised by the apparent actions of Mark Loveys – he also informed me that Mr Loveys is at present busy on a Corporate Board for a powerful and influential organisation named SAP. I am at loss to understand what is the motivation here. Stan, Whangaparoa, Auckland North. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.234.162.200 (talk) 03:41, 4 August 2012 (UTC)


Stan - I'm sorry to say that your research time has been wasted. Nobody is arguing that Mark Loveys was in the band that called itself Satellite Spies in the 1990's and perhaps 2000's. What is being argued is that Deane Sutherland quit Satellite Spies in 1987 (immediately before a large Satellite Spies nationwide tour of New Zealand) and thereby relinquished his claim that his 1990's band that he calls Satellite Spies is the same band that recorded the Destiny in Motion album in the 1980's. These are totally different bands, except that he played guitar in both. There are plenty of witnesses to the fact that he quit in 1987, including Mark Loveys, Glyn Tucker (read Glyn Tucker's email about it by Google searching "Satellite Spies Glyn Tucker"), Gordon Joll, Brett Adams, Tim Wedde among others. Satellite Spies continued touring, performing and recording songs & videos through the late 1980's after Deane Sutherland departed. These songs and videos that Satellite Spies produced after Deane Sutherland departed are easily located on the Internet today.

The Trade Marks that have been referred to above are irrelevant to this Wiki article because this article is/(was supposed to be) about a band called "Satellite Spies" that existed solely during the 1980's - before Deane Sutherland registered his trade marks. If you refer to the letter from the IP lawyer that Mark Loveys engaged to check the legality of the trade marks you'll see that Mark Loveys has in no way infringed anything to do with those trade marks (Google search "Satellite Spies Wayne Hudson"). Therefore the last paragraph of the current version of the article as it stands today needs to be removed immediately, because it wrongly states that Mark Loveys is acting illegally, when this is clearly not the case. Boatie62 (talk) 04:47, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you to administrator JohnCD for removing the defamatory statement about Mark Loveys from the last paragraph as I requested above.
Last night I located another source of information about Satellite Spies, in a blog called "Deleting Music" by prominent music industry researcher, writer, lecturer Andrew Dubber. You can Google search "Deleting Music Destiny in Motion" to find it. The article contains an interview with Mark Loveys discussing the Satellite Spies & Deane Sutherland naming debacle. Even more relevant are the responses at the end of the article. I encourage anyone interested in this subject to read all of the responses, including those by Mike Bouwmeester of Blase and Glyn Tucker the band's record producer. Also of special interest are comments by Darren Gedye and JJBug who went to see what they thought was Satellite Spies in the 1990's, only to find out it was a totally different band playing "average covers".
In summary, there is an abundance of evidence on the Internet today from very credible people, that runs contrary to what DunedinYoh has posted about Satellite Spies. There is no doubt that Deane Sutherland did set up another band that he called Satellite Spies in the 1990's and tried to pass it off as the original band by claiming continuity of his membership of the band. I can only guess as to what his motives were for doing that.
Given the controversy, this article needs to be fully verifiable with credible sources, like the version that Wikipedia moderator Shell Kinney produced on 8th June 2009. It should probably acknowledge that there were two different bands that used the name in two different decades. This widens the scope of the article, but may serve to lessen the degree of confusion and disagreement.

Boatie62 (talk) 19:30, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Hey there

I've been advised that my previous comment has been removed......by 'someone' (Mark loveys ??). I"d be interested to know why someone would do that ? I worked for satellite spies for several years from 94 to 2001. Had a LOT to do with the operations of the band on the road as I was road crew manager (a hands on role). Deane Sutherland and the boys wont forget me in a hurry lmfao !

I guess in that time frame I was responsible for setting up about 350 gigs. So I DO KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. This was a very unusual job and interesting to say the least - never boring. Hellish hard yakka and not enough sleep were about the order of the day. Still I wouldn't have done it if I didn't enjoy it.

lets see if I can remember some of the road crew

Ryan, Sid, Young Paul (sometimes known for good reason as 'Last",) Ro, (now deceased, Paul the drunk, Donald

Um......and undoubably many I can't recall. As the nature of the job was busy busy busy the boys didn't really last too long I think they all joined up thinking girls/parties/etc etc.....and got a hell of a shock when the work was required. I was always the first out of bed as I had to get the others up and organised to packup or travel to the next show. It was difficult to get them up sometimes I'd say "You got five minutes to get up" then I'd go back in there after that time was up .....of course they were always reluctant to get out of bed (specially in the middle of the night after not enough sleep) but I'd rip the blankets off them. That worked pretty well as it's not the same trying to sleep with no blankets. We had a LOT of fun and it's always neat to turn up to a venue because people are always happy to see the band show up.

Deane Sutherland (the band leader) and I often had a very LOUD relationship with many 'discussions' and we sometimes hated each other (specially on tour when long days/not enough sleep and living in each others pockets puts a lot of stress on us all)........however we are great friends of course now-a-days.


DRC


— Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.97.155.124 (talk) 23:51, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Very shocking, although interesting - what a saga; BUT HEY! I have found out some interesting "FACTS" folks; this so-called prominent music industry researcher, lecturer, a certain "ANDREW DUBBER"; whom compiled this blog "Deleting Music"; that BOATIE62 is referring to - is none other than a FAMILY member of Mark Loveys; WOAH, "OH MY GOD" - how 'LOW' will this guy Loveys sink trying to rig a reality story like this; maybe he wants to reclaim his lost youth or something, like a mid-life crisis; and organising a family member to write a one-sided seemingly totally biased story of fiction is deplorable. I went to "Just Plain Interesting" in West Auckland, whom I was informed had a second hand copy of the old vinyl "DESTINY IN MOTION" album with Loveys and Joy (Sutherland) on the reverse cover; while reading through all the jargon, I came across the name Glyn Tucker of 'Reaction Records' BOATIE62 mentions; Tucker, whom apparently owned ‘Reaction Records’ in the 1980’s, has included on the reverse side; a certain "GLENN HOLLAND" character, who is thanked by TUCKER; If Loveys is attempting to accumulate credibility through bringing “Tucker” into the mix, He’s insane – “Because”, Glyn Tucker is associated with this GLENN HOLLAND person, whom I have just found out is a CONVICTED “Paedophile” and has featured on 20/20 and 60 Minutes in Australia and New Zealand - If Tuckers credibility in the New Zealand Music Business, (coupled together with his partnering-up with this “HOLLAND CHARACTER”, a convicted Paedophile), is his attempt to con us all - I feel he is more stupid than he looks. Sutherland, (if he is indeed that same “JOY” character) has been with the same SATELLITE SPIES band from its beginnings - so, if Loveys is NO longer with the band - he should just STOP being an absolute PLONKER....................I more I find out about this LOVEYS’ intention to character assassinate Sutherland, the worse Loveys sinks into the abyss of LIES & DECEPTION. Grow-up and move on BOATIE62 (or maybe it is Mr Loveys ? ? ?) What year was Mark Loveys born? Was it ‘62’. NO else cares that you aren't in the band anymore. Where is your evidence anyway? I have been looking ‘HIGH and LOW’ – LOVEYS and BOATIE62 just make libellous remarks with just 'HERESAY' quotes and nothing substantial - I AM WITH STAN, of Whangaparoa. (GO HOME BOATIE 62 and give us something formally evidential PLEASE? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.37.160 (talk) 04:25, 5 August 2012 (UTC)


Andrew Dubber declares his connection with Mark Loveys in the opening sentences of his article. There is nothing underhand about that.
You are getting in to very murky waters with your personal defamatory attacks.
I am only concerned with preserving accurate historical record of Satellite Spies and the fact that you Deane Sutherland are trying to distort it for your own perceived benefit. I am talking about identity theft.
You are fooling nobody with your attempt at multiple identities in this argument and burying my argument in your vast volumes of nonsense. Anyone reading this should run the Google searches I have recommended above to get the real story of this argument. They are "Satellite Spies Glyn Tucker" and "Satellite Spies Wayne Hudson" and "Deleting Music Destiny in Motion".

Boatie62 (talk) 15:41, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

Request closed as article is not protected anymore. FloBo A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 13:10, 9 August 2012 (UTC)