| DYK toolbox |
|---|
Chauncey Archiquette
- ... that Chauncey Archiquette was Jim Thorpe's idol?
- Source: Path Lit by Lightning: The Life of Jim Thorpe (Thorpe said "[Archiquette] was my football idol and in our scrub games with the homemade football I always tried to emulate him") / Carlisle Vs. Army ("[Thorpe] was particularly taken with the team's star runner, an Indian boy named Chauncey Archiquette ... One day, Thorpe told himself, I'm going to be as tough as Chauncey ... [Thorpe, after watching practice] raced back and forth over the empty field, zigging here, zagging there, trying to emulate his idol.")
Moved to mainspace by BeanieFan11 (talk).
Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 247 past nominations.
BeanieFan11 (talk) 16:56, 19 September 2024 (UTC).
@BeanieFan11: Although Thorpe was a highly accomplished and iconic athlete of his era, I'm not actually sure if most Americans today know who he is or at least recognize his name (speaking as a non-American). In addition, I don't know if Thorpe is a name that is known internationally. As such, the hook as currently written may not be broadly interesting enough to meet WP:DYKINT. Additional hook suggestions are probably needed here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:04, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- I considered this when making the nomination, but Thorpe is one of the most famous athletes of all time. Books are written about him nearly every year and we still have articles from the past few months such as "Thorpe was and still is the greatest athlete in the history of sports" / "On this day in history, May 28, 1888, Jim Thorpe, 'greatest athlete in the world,' is born" – I would be very surprised if the vast majority of people don't recognize his name. I feel like it may lose some of its 'punch', but if really necessary, we could say something like ALT1 ... that Chauncey Archiquette was the idol of Jim Thorpe, regarded as one of the greatest athletes in history? BeanieFan11 (talk) 14:45, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- I'll probably have to cite WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE here:
don't assume everyone worldwide is familiar with your subject
. And for what it's worth, I made a bit of an informal survey about this on Discord, and the three editors who responded said they didn't know who Thorpe is. Note that my thoughts about the hook are independent of the survey; in fact, I made the survey because I wanted to know if American editors might find the hook interesting and to check my own thoughts. As for the nomination itself, the safest option here is probably to try a completely different angle. While ALT1 is arguably a better option, as you said, it loses some of the punch with the additional context. Thorpe is no Lionel Messi or Michael Jordan to warrant the angle, methinks. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:43, 20 September 2024 (UTC)- I'm rather stunned at the idea that Thorpe isn't well known enough. I don't really see any other good options with the article as well. Would changing the hook so that it does not mention Thorpe, but still has that aspect, work? – I.e. something like ALT2 ... that the "greatest athlete in the world" was inspired by Chauncey Archiquette? (I'd need to add the quote to the article, but Thorpe has widely been called that.) BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:54, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- I think that's a better hook, but I'm not sure if it will pass scrutiny. DYK usually wants quotes in quote hooks to be attributed whenever possible, but adding an attribution to the hook would probably weaken the article's punch. It might be a good idea to seek opinions from other editors who are experts on wordsmithing like RoySmith, Theleekycauldron, or Launchballer. In any case, I'd suggest dropping any hook that directly mentions Jim Thorpe per WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE and either having only ALT2 for consideration for now, or trying a different angle. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:01, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
- I also have never heard of Jim Thorpe, although that may be because I know little about sports in general. I quite like ALT3: ... that tacklers "bounced off" Chauncey Archiquette "as if he were a brick wall"?.--Launchballer 15:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
- That works. BeanieFan11 (talk) 15:49, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
- I also have never heard of Jim Thorpe, although that may be because I know little about sports in general. I quite like ALT3: ... that tacklers "bounced off" Chauncey Archiquette "as if he were a brick wall"?.--Launchballer 15:46, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
- I think that's a better hook, but I'm not sure if it will pass scrutiny. DYK usually wants quotes in quote hooks to be attributed whenever possible, but adding an attribution to the hook would probably weaken the article's punch. It might be a good idea to seek opinions from other editors who are experts on wordsmithing like RoySmith, Theleekycauldron, or Launchballer. In any case, I'd suggest dropping any hook that directly mentions Jim Thorpe per WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE and either having only ALT2 for consideration for now, or trying a different angle. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:01, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
- I'm rather stunned at the idea that Thorpe isn't well known enough. I don't really see any other good options with the article as well. Would changing the hook so that it does not mention Thorpe, but still has that aspect, work? – I.e. something like ALT2 ... that the "greatest athlete in the world" was inspired by Chauncey Archiquette? (I'd need to add the quote to the article, but Thorpe has widely been called that.) BeanieFan11 (talk) 23:54, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- I'll probably have to cite WP:DYKHOOKSTYLE here:
Full review needed now that hook discussion has taken place. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:44, 25 October 2024 (UTC)
Hi BeanieFan11. This article created on the 18 September (and promoted to GA since) is long enough, new enough, well-sourced, neutral, and copyvio free. The article is presentable. The QPQ has been done. I'll admit, I (non-American) was not familiar with Jim Thorpe before this DYK, so I prefer ALT3. However, I don't love ALT3, because it seems like similar things have been said about a lot of American footballers. Perhaps it is worth making people click through to see who Jim Thorpe is in order to have an interesting hook? All hooks are cited and I've verified the citations. Good to go. Best, Tenpop421 (talk) 21:32, 3 November 2024 (UTC)- I'm also not wild about ALT3, both on attribution and interestingness, but I wouldn't object to someone else promoting it. theleekycauldron (talk • she/her) 03:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)
