Template:Did you know nominations/Maw Htun Aung

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 02:49, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

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Maw Htun Aung

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  • ... that in the 2020 Myanmar general election, Maw Htun Aung, Deputy Minister of Electricity and Energy of the NUG, chose to represent the SNLD party, not Aung San Suu Kyi's NLD? Source: "More activists and NGO workers are vying to be MPs - and shunning the NLD in favour of smaller parties". Myanmar NOW. Retrieved 4 November 2021.

Created by Htanaungg (talk). Self-nominated at 07:29, 5 November 2021 (UTC).

I don't see what's so surprising about this. The article doesn't suggest in any way that there would have been any expectation of him running on the NLD line, or that he had previously been involved in the NLD. Daniel Case (talk) 17:58, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
How about the following one, Daniel Case? Htanaungg (talk) 10:38, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

Article was created 4 November 2021, the day before DYK nomination and as of this review, sits at 2621 prose characters. Almost every sentence cites a source; perhaps consider adding inline citations for his education at Yangon and at Hong Kong, just in case the material is challenged. No obvious problems with article neutrality; Earwig did not detect any copyvio. The English-language Myanmar Now ref supports both ALT0 and ALT1, assuming good faith on the DVB Burmese source for his NUG position. ALT0 is more interesting than ALT1 is: ALT1 is unclear on how are the two facts are related and how that relationship is surprising. On the other hand, one with only a passing familiarity with Myanmar politics would expect candidates to run with the major party's ticket, making ALT0 interesting. Both hooks are under the character limit and cited inline in the article itself.

Due to your username, may I please kindly ask your relation to the article subject, if any? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 03:27, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Also, QPQ done per Special:Diff/1035173663 (to make the username more obvious). Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 03:30, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
Thank you, Rotideypoc41352, for your kind review. I have surely no relation with this subject, nor any other ones I've created, ranging from royals to democrats. In fact, I've changed, a few months ago, my username from Zin Win Hlaing to current one – Htanaungg – due to some personal cases. You may find the deletion history of my old userpage here. If that QPQ is not okay, I'd doubtlessly provide another one – Template:Did you know nominations/Marginopora vertebralis. Again, thank you. Htanaungg (talk) 04:12, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

per the above. The Halin graph QPQ sufficies; please feel free to use the M. vertebralis one for another nomination. Cheers, Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 04:18, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

  • @Rotideypoc41352: Unfortunately, one with only a passing familiarity with Myanmar politics is going to be, like, 10% of our audience—and that's highballing it. Hooks need to be interesting to a sufficiently broad audience, and I'm not seeing how either of these hooks hit that. Is there a way the ALT0 could be clarified to show the interestingness? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/she?) 08:18, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
Huh. I would've thought a broad audience would know Aung San Suu Kyi and that Myanmar pretty much had one major party—time to re-examine my personal biases. theleekycauldron, which person are you asking to reword the hook: me (the reviewer) or the nominator? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 15:27, 6 December 2021 (UTC)
@Rotideypoc41352: Ah, gotcha :) anyone can propose new hooks, so if you're up to it, that'd be welcomed—I'm happy for either of you to do so. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/she?) 15:32, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

@Theleekycauldron and Htanaungg: how does ALT0b sound? Snappier hook wordings welcome; for example, wondering if we could exclude the Deputy Minister part for simplicity, as per Burmese-language source cited in article, Maw Htun Aung was appointed to that position in 2021. (Yet, that clause provides some nice context...) Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 23:03, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Sounds great! I'm certainly OK, Rotideypoc41352. 😊 Htanaungg (talk) 05:05, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
  • @Htanaungg: the concerns are at WT:DYK#last one of these, i promise unless the archive bot beats us to it. Chipmunkdavis (CMB) expressed some concern at the article's neutrality. CMD, may I kindly please ask what concrete action you had in mind: adding context, removing the mention of deputy minister, some combination, or something else altogether? Cheers, Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 05:03, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
  • For the hook, we shouldn't conflate current position with the 2020 election, as it suggests he held that position at the time of the election. For the article, there needs to be very clear context that the NUG is not actually governing Myanmar. The lead and infobox are quite misleading as it stands. It's also slightly bizarre how the Political career section somehow skips over the impact of the coup entirely, while also lacking the appropriate context. CMD (talk) 08:46, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
Given the issues raised about the cabinet hooks, all of them have been struck. New hooks are needed here. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 04:00, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
@Chipmunkdavis: It's undeniable there're two parallel governments – one de facto and one de jure. But taking into consideration for NPOV, I didn't make, in the article, the NUG either legitimate or shadow govn't. Rather, not to be confused with the current office holders on ground, I've provided the full name – i.e. the National Unity Government of Myanmar and the Cabinet of Committee Representing Pyidaungsu Hluttaw – not the Burmese government nor Burmese parliament. Both in the infobox and lead section, it's clear that the subject is a deputy minister of electricity and energy "of the NUG", not a deputy minister of the Ministry of Electricity and Energy of Burma, as somebody mainly working on current Burmese politics have been discussed. Also in the section, I've only mentioned he was appointed by the CRPH in the cabinet of the NUG; there's obviously no neutrality issues – no extra personal facts. Actually, saying that NUG is not actually governing Myanmar would indirectly make a bias towards the ruling junta. Htanaungg (talk) 04:46, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
It is not biased to say the group governing Myanmar are the group governing Myanmar, and using the official titles remains highly misleading. These hooks and articles are meant to be understood by a general audience, not those currently working in Burmese politics. CMD (talk) 07:43, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
It's unlikely that the general audience (including you, me, and other editors involved in here) don't even know the name of the NUG and the title used in the article – "deputy minister of electricity and energy of the NUG"; it has been widely used in many an RS, including Reuters. There's obviously no need to be misleading; just after scanning the article, even "one with only a passing familiarity with Burmese politics" can easily understand, like, the subject is an NUG's cabinet minister. I don't see any issues at that point. Besides, this article is just about who Maw Htun Aung is, not what the NUG or CRPH is nor the SAC is. Htanaungg (talk) 08:23, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
The general audience does not read Reuters articles on Burmese politics. Arguing they are familiar with the NUG is not plausible. CMD (talk) 09:25, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
Added context to lede and § Political career per Chipmunkdavis (CMD)'s suggestions. CMD, I'm open to proposed or actual edits for the infobox since you mentioned it. If the additions to the article proper suffice, let's go from there. Thanks, Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 00:16, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Infoboxes are prone to these issues, but the article changes are a great improvement, especially the giving of timing in Political career. For the hook, I suggest not mixing a current position with previous actions, eg. if the hook is about 2020 election, it should refer to him by his status at that time. CMD (talk) 06:26, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Thoughts, Chipmunkdavis? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 17:45, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

I would suggest a hook which explicitly notes that he was running for an apparently ethnically-based party despite being from a different ethnicity. That seems far more interesting than saying he didn't represent the ruling party, which doesn't catch much attention. The article would need to be more explicit on the point too, as it doesn't mention his ethnicity at all outside of the lead, nor mention the ideological reasons he cites for running for the SNLD. CMD (talk) 18:12, 14 December 2021 (UTC)

Chipmunkdavis, the attempt above is to minimize changes to the article, as I am still looking for a source that links the two facts or a good way to do so. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 23:28, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Rotideypoc41352, there's Frontier Myanmar source for ALT3. Htanaungg (talk) 02:48, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
Thank you. On that note, trout Self-trout. Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 04:11, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, a better topic, perhaps wording tweak or two but that is the right essence. @Theleekycauldron:, who initially reviewed and is much more currently versed in the state of hookiness. CMD (talk) 07:39, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
@Chipmunkdavis: why so serious? Uh! Ok let's go to the noticeboard. So let's admin decide. Taung Tan (talk) 04:04, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
@Taung Tan: a notice was already posted at WT:DYK, that's how CMD came across this nomination. Constructive criticism is designed to, and can only, improve nominations, so please refrain from speaking to other editors the way you did. theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/she) 05:03, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
Theleekycauldron seriously? Well saying other to "Are you judging on ____ " is how to go Personal attack? I only seen WP:IDONTLIKE here. I've no opinion on Htanaungg's DYK. However that is look good to me. Taung Tan (talk) 05:16, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

A week has passed since I addressed the major problems with the article. Could someone else please kindly check ALT3? Thank you, Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs)

Article doesn't actually mention Kachin in context of ethnicity at all, and Shan is only connected to ethnicity in the mention of "the Shan Nationalities League for Democracy (SNLD), a major ethnic party in Shan State"; ALT3 doesn't seem suitable because it isn't in the article. If suitable mention is made of the Shan and Kachin as ethnicity, the article would also need some context about Maw Htun Aung running for a seat in Shan state being (as implied) controversial because of this (or was it that him joining the party is the issue?) - either way, that would need to come directly from an RS (no synth of one source mentioning his ethnicity and another saying there have been ethnic tensions or whatever). Kingsif (talk) 04:14, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
I've added body text from the Frontier source. CMD (talk) 15:44, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
Thanks. Alt3 approved and initial review taken. Kingsif (talk) 23:14, 29 December 2021 (UTC)