The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
ALT1: ... that journalist Megan Twohey described the decision to name the internet forum Sanctioned Suicide in their report as one of the "biggest ethical issues that we had ever dealt with"? Source: How The New York Times handled life-or-death ethical issues while reporting on a popular suicide website (Poynter) - “We also even worked with our search team to make sure that we were being extremely careful not to raise the profile of either the site or the preservative more than absolutely necessary,” Dance said, “while also making sure lawmakers, law enforcement and parents and family members had the opportunity to know what to look out for.” ... “Immediately, we recognized that these were going to be two of the biggest ethical issues that we had ever dealt with in, you know, our pretty lengthy journalism careers,” she said.
ALT2: ... that Sanctioned Suicide called Australia an "anti-liberty country" after some Australian internet service providers blocked access to the internet forum dedicated to suicide? Source: Pro-suicide website blocks access to Australians after families speak out - A pro-suicide website linked to deaths in this country has answered calls to block Australian users from accessing it, but not because of claims it is harmful and incites suicide...Now its administrators have blocked it to Australian users, saying it is a response to this country's "authoritarian" attempts to stifle its influence..."We are done with the site-blocking BS, and anti-liberty countries will just be blocked."...The website had been blocked by some internet service providers at the request of the Australian Federal Police but was still accessible to many Australians.
ALT3: ... that after U.S. lawmakers released a statement against the internet forum Sanctioned Suicide, Microsoft Bing responded by lowering the site's ranking in its search results? Source: Lawmakers Urge Big Tech to ‘Mitigate Harm’ of Suicide Site and Seek Justice InquiryResponding to a New York Times investigation of the site published this month, the House Committee on Energy and Commerce on Monday released a bipartisan statement requesting briefings from search engines, web-hosting companies and other tech companies whose services might have been leveraged by the suicide site...A representative for Microsoft’s search engine, Bing, told The Times last week that the company had altered its search engine to lower the ranking of the site, which has been linked to a trail of deaths.
Comment: I've discussed the appropriateness of having this article on the main page with another editor on the WP:DISCORD, who encouraged me to go ahead, but I would like to hear the thoughts of other editors as well. I'm willing to not run the hook if there is a belief that it would be too dangerous to run. I've also provided four hooks and hope that other editors could provide advice on the wording of the hooks as it is a sensitive topic.
Hi Kate, this appears to be your first DYK review? Out of an abundance of caution, I would rather that this was seen by more editors (with some discussion of the hooks themselves), as it is potentially contentious, before it is approved. I've moved it back for now. :3 F4U (they/it) 05:57, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
I've opened a discussion about this at WT:DYK, where it's likely to get more attention. Sojourner in the earth (talk) 18:00, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
I'm going to disapprove and strike ALT0, which mentions links between the forum and incels. I understand that the founders self-identify as incels, but the hook would "focus unduly on negative aspects of living individuals", which violates WP:DYKCRIT 4a. Additionally, the hook could be interpreted to link all members of the forum to the incel subculture. See MOS:SUICIDE: Language choices sometimes carry connotations that are not obvious to every editor. Additionally, see WP:BLP: [BLPs] must be written conservatively and with regard for the subject's privacy... It is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives; the possibility of harm to living subjects must always be considered when exercising editorial judgment.
@Freedom4U: I'm wondering if you'd be willing to propose hooks that avoid including the name "Sanctioned Suicide"? Edge3 (talk) 01:59, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
@Edge3: Agree with your judgement on the first hook. I bet I could refactor ALT2 while keeping it quote, hooky, unquote. What about:
Let me know what you think. Also, should "an" be inside or outside the wikilink? I'll be logging off pretty soon for tonight and my day is packed tommorow, so I may not respond until Sunday. :3 F4U (they/it) 02:41, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
I'm inclined to oppose ALT6 for similar reasons as I articulated before. MOS:SUICIDE says: Suicide and self-harm are complex behaviors with multi-factorial causes. Do not oversimplify the causes of suicide. I'm reluctant to have any hook that could be interpreted as a generalization of the website's userbase. (e.g. whether the hook impies that they are incels, or they are young people.) Such language could lead to a variety of interpretations based on the perspective of the reader. (A young person at risk of suicide could either feel encouraged to have found a community of people just like them, or in the alternative, insulted that their problems are being reduced to youthful naïveté.) As I quoted previously from MOS:SUICIDE, Language choices sometimes carry connotations that are not obvious to every editor. Young people are already a vulnerable population; we shouldn't bring attention to their high levels of participation on this site.
Additionally, the source is an informal survey conducted by the site itself. If we're going to present sensitive statistics on such a vulnerable population, we should stick to the highest possible standards of sourcing.
By the way, @Freedom4U: I wasn't sure if you wanted to keep ALT3, so I added the version ALT3a which avoids directly naming the forum. Edge3 (talk) 04:22, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
@Edge3: I really need to sleep, but one comment before I'm out. Support striking ALT6, yeah it definitely seems insensitive in retrospect. I didn't convert ALT3 because I feel it would be too wordy at that point for it to also be "hooky". :3 F4U (they/it) 05:03, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
Kate the mochii (talk) 04:11, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
:3 F4U (they/it) 05:57, 19 July 2023 (UTC)