- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 04:06, 10 January 2021 (UTC)
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Siegfried Pank
Siegfried Pank in 2014
- ... that Siegfried Pank (pictured), a former cellist of the Gewandhausorchester and professor of cello and viol in Leipzig, became in 2012 director of the International Telemann Association that he had co-founded? Source: [1]
- Reviewed: Filipino Baby
Created by LouisAlain (talk) and Gerda Arendt (talk). Nominated by Gerda Arendt (talk) at 22:04, 8 December 2020 (UTC).
Article long enough and new enough (just within the 7 day limit), and generally within policy with regards to referencing and neutrality. No copyvio detected. Suggest a shorter hook as I think it will be difficult to parse all the info of the proposed hook just by a glance on the main page. HaEr48 (talk) 01:10, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
- thank you, but what? Few people are both members of that notable orchestra and professor of a period instrument, and founded The international organisation on a specific composer, and serve at its director. More people will know the orchestra than the composer, I guess, but those who do know the composer should also be served. We could drop "cello" from the teaching, but would again loose versatility. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:22, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
- @HaEr48: It should be noted that the original hook (excluding the (pictured)) is 200 characters long, which is the maximum length and thus could probably be shortened further. Here's an attempt to simplify the original hook:
- ALT0a ... that in 2012, cellist and professor Siegfried Pank (pictured) became the director of the International Telemann Association, which he had co-founded in 1991?
- With that said, we don't even have an article on the organization, so I'm not sure why the proposed hook is about that as opposed to his period cellist career, which sounds more interesting. I also linked to Telemann in the hook as the typical reader may be less familiar with him compared to some of his more well-known contemporaries like Handel or Vivaldi. Gerda, if more sources can be found about the Telemann Association and can write an article about it, would you be willing to make this a double nomination? Narutolovehinata5 t ccsdnew 09:35, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
- Short reply: many have a period instrument career, but few founded THE international organisation for a notable Baroque composer. Cellist alone doesn't mean much without Gewandhausorchester in the town where Bach worked the longest, and professor not much without where. No location, no time, why? I have plans for the next weeks, writing about the composer is one of them (rather than the organisation), fighting that ugly tag. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:58, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
- As HaEr48 noted above, the current hook is too complicated to be easily understood, and tries to cram in too much information instead of highlighting a specific fact about him. If your point is that he founded the premier organization on Telemann, then why not simply focus the hook on that? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:28, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
- Because, as you correctly pointed out, the organisation has no article (not even in German), so it's the orchestra that establishes when and where to place him in history. Also: anybody could found such a thing, but active musician adds life to that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:47, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt, in my opinion, the goal is not to identify the single most unique line describing the subject, but also to come up with something that the viewers can understand when browsing the main page (and then decide if they want to click to the full article or not). As you know, the hook will appear alongside ~7 other DYK hooks as well as other blurbs/sections to the main page, so it is really important to be easy to parse in order to be noticed. As Narutolovehinata5 mentions, this hook is barely within the 200-character limit, and the WP:DYKHOOK allows reviewer's discretion to not select hooks that are too close to the limit. HaEr48 (talk) 15:33, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
- Sorry, I have no time to think about him today. I don't enjoy being lectured about hooks, after 10 years of making them, but if you (2+) enjoy lecturing, keep doing that. I try to do as much justice to a multi-talented person as I can. Pointing out just one bit seems unfair to the subject. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:07, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
- In any case, given that the reviewer has already stated the original hook is unsuitable, a new more appropriate hook will need to be proposed, or else the nomination may be failed. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:54, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
- Here I said - tired - that I don't enjoy being lectured, and wake up to more lecturing, with a warning. I love collaboration. You could have proposed another hook, Narutolovehinata5.
- ALT1: ... that Siegfried Pank (pictured), the director of the International Telemann Association, was a cellist of the Gewandhausorchester and professor of cello and viol? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerda Arendt (talk • contribs)
- Thank you Gerda Arendt. Please don't get me wrong, I am aware of (and appreciate) your constant contributions here in DYK. It is not my intention to lecture you, I am trying my best to evaluate the hook per the guideline; this is my job as the DYK reviewer, I hope you understand. The ALT1 hook looks fine. It is shorter (160 characters) and easier to parse. All the information in it is found in the article (assuming the office is director is the same as president), and is cited, except that the sentence talking about being a cellist of the Gewandhausorchester isn't cited in the article. Could we trouble you with adding an inline citation for that part of the paragraph? HaEr48 (talk) 14:13, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
- I added a few. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 23:21, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
- Thank you Gerda Arendt. Please don't get me wrong, I am aware of (and appreciate) your constant contributions here in DYK. It is not my intention to lecture you, I am trying my best to evaluate the hook per the guideline; this is my job as the DYK reviewer, I hope you understand. The ALT1 hook looks fine. It is shorter (160 characters) and easier to parse. All the information in it is found in the article (assuming the office is director is the same as president), and is cited, except that the sentence talking about being a cellist of the Gewandhausorchester isn't cited in the article. Could we trouble you with adding an inline citation for that part of the paragraph? HaEr48 (talk) 14:13, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
- In any case, given that the reviewer has already stated the original hook is unsuitable, a new more appropriate hook will need to be proposed, or else the nomination may be failed. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 00:54, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
- Sorry, I have no time to think about him today. I don't enjoy being lectured about hooks, after 10 years of making them, but if you (2+) enjoy lecturing, keep doing that. I try to do as much justice to a multi-talented person as I can. Pointing out just one bit seems unfair to the subject. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:07, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
- Gerda Arendt, in my opinion, the goal is not to identify the single most unique line describing the subject, but also to come up with something that the viewers can understand when browsing the main page (and then decide if they want to click to the full article or not). As you know, the hook will appear alongside ~7 other DYK hooks as well as other blurbs/sections to the main page, so it is really important to be easy to parse in order to be noticed. As Narutolovehinata5 mentions, this hook is barely within the 200-character limit, and the WP:DYKHOOK allows reviewer's discretion to not select hooks that are too close to the limit. HaEr48 (talk) 15:33, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
- Because, as you correctly pointed out, the organisation has no article (not even in German), so it's the orchestra that establishes when and where to place him in history. Also: anybody could found such a thing, but active musician adds life to that. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:47, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
- As HaEr48 noted above, the current hook is too complicated to be easily understood, and tries to cram in too much information instead of highlighting a specific fact about him. If your point is that he founded the premier organization on Telemann, then why not simply focus the hook on that? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:28, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
- Short reply: many have a period instrument career, but few founded THE international organisation for a notable Baroque composer. Cellist alone doesn't mean much without Gewandhausorchester in the town where Bach worked the longest, and professor not much without where. No location, no time, why? I have plans for the next weeks, writing about the composer is one of them (rather than the organisation), fighting that ugly tag. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:58, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
- @HaEr48: It should be noted that the original hook (excluding the (pictured)) is 200 characters long, which is the maximum length and thus could probably be shortened further. Here's an attempt to simplify the original hook:
