- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 07:20, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
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St. Martin, Moosach
Alt-St. Martin, Moosach
... that the St. Martin parish of Moosach has two churches, one of the oldest churches in Munich (pictured), and a larger one dedicated in 1924?Source: several- reviewed: Francis Pharcellus Church
Created by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 21:23, 19 December 2021 (UTC).
Article was (barely) new enough at the time of the nomination, and is long enough and adequately sourced. A QPQ has been done. However, there are several issues with the hook. Firstly, nothing in the article outright states that one of the churches is one of the oldest churches in Munich: while the article states that the church has a long history (dating back to 815), the words "one of the oldest in Munich" are never directly stated or sourced in the article. Secondly, coming from a very Catholic country myself, it's not that unusual for a parish to have more than one church or chapel, so the hook isn't really that unique in that regard. If the issues regarding the "one of the oldest in Munich" aspect can be addressed, I think a hook about that fact specifically would be a good hook: a hook that only mentions Alte Pfarrkirche St. Martin and says that it is one of the oldest churches in Munich. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 01:53, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
- Narutolovehinata5, thank you for the review, and happy New Year! - Yes, there are many parishes with more than one church, but not so many with two of the same name (often the older one is demolished) and both active, and so different. The hook doesn't say it's the only one, just something I find specific. - As for "one of the oldest", there's a ref now, also, the date will make it "one of the oldest" as quite old. The sentence is translated, and I am sure the book sources will support the fact, but sadly I don't see them. If that's not good enough for you, we could say "around 1200" and let readers decide themselves. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:08, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
- OK let's say so:
- ALT0a: ... that the St. Martin parish of Moosach has two churches dedicated to Martin of Tours, one (pictured) dating back to the 13th century , and a larger one dedicated in 1924?
- I still think a hook about the "oldest in Munich" angle is the better path forward here. Perhaps something along the likes of "that the church, dating back to the 13th century, is one of the oldest..." or wording to that effect? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:44, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
- It's only "one of the oldest", which may be ten or what? The unique thing is that there are two, and more action is in the newer one. St. Sylvester is also "one of the oldest", - they found a different solution, building the new one so close that it's connected space. DYK to come. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:23, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
- As I mentioned before, a parish having two or more churches isn't unusual. Being one of the oldest churches in one of the world's major cities is. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:09, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
- As mentioned before, it's not unique to this place, we could say the same about St. Sylvester. Also, for European standards, both are not exceptionally old. Plus how would you word it, - the article is about the parish, and the official names of the two churches are hopelessly long and Germanish, "Alte Pfarrkirche St. Martin"? (I really thought I found an elegant way around that problem ...) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:18, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
- Something like "... that the Alte Pfarrkirche St. Martin, one of the oldest churches in Munich, dates back to the 9th century?" or "... that the current building of the Alte Pfarrkirche St. Martin, one of the oldest churches in Munich, dates to the 12th or 13th century?" Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:31, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
- Forgive me, but that's a lot of German, and a fact this place would share with several others. I'll be back with adifferent sugestion, but am on vacation and now out for the day. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:35, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
- Sorry, I have a problem with "one of the oldest", not only that it's shared by several, also that we don't know precisely when first built, and that the pictured building looks quite different from the beginning. I added a bit to the article.
- Something like "... that the Alte Pfarrkirche St. Martin, one of the oldest churches in Munich, dates back to the 9th century?" or "... that the current building of the Alte Pfarrkirche St. Martin, one of the oldest churches in Munich, dates to the 12th or 13th century?" Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:31, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
- As mentioned before, it's not unique to this place, we could say the same about St. Sylvester. Also, for European standards, both are not exceptionally old. Plus how would you word it, - the article is about the parish, and the official names of the two churches are hopelessly long and Germanish, "Alte Pfarrkirche St. Martin"? (I really thought I found an elegant way around that problem ...) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:18, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
- As I mentioned before, a parish having two or more churches isn't unusual. Being one of the oldest churches in one of the world's major cities is. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 09:09, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
- It's only "one of the oldest", which may be ten or what? The unique thing is that there are two, and more action is in the newer one. St. Sylvester is also "one of the oldest", - they found a different solution, building the new one so close that it's connected space. DYK to come. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:23, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
- I still think a hook about the "oldest in Munich" angle is the better path forward here. Perhaps something along the likes of "that the church, dating back to the 13th century, is one of the oldest..." or wording to that effect? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 11:44, 5 January 2022 (UTC)
Star singers at St. Martin, Moosach, in 2022
- ALT1: ... that star singers from the Munich parish St. Martin, Moosach, (pictured), were received by Angela Merkel in 2012?
- ALT2: ... that when star singers from the Munich parish St. Martin, Moosach, (pictured) were sent to bless houses, Annette Thoma's Peasents' Mass was performed? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 22:05, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you. I like ALT1. The issue here is that the article calls Merkel "President" but she was Chancellor, not President (she was never President of Germany). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:51, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
- fixed, sorry, thinking too American ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:43, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
- Thank you. I like ALT1. The issue here is that the article calls Merkel "President" but she was Chancellor, not President (she was never President of Germany). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:51, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
Thank you. ALT1 is GTG based on the German source that is AGF accepted. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:14, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
ALT1 to T:DYK/P1