 | This discussion was subject to a deletion review on 2008 October 23. For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review. |
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Well... this is naturally a very hard close, and I ask everyone to read through this before making any judgment calls about this close. Going by “votes” it’s split right down the middle (maybe one or two going one way or the other), so that’s not the basis for this close. You see, there are four camps of users in this debate. The first is requesting deletion because the subject is not notable. The second is those saying the article should be deleted as a result of the WP:BLP issues evident, mainly the subject requesting deletion. The third group is those saying the article should be kept in spite of the BLP issues, and the fourth group is saying that despite the BLP claims, Jolie has sufficient notability where the subject of the article requesting deletion is too famous to warrant it. The first and third camps (“Doesn’t pass WP:PORNBIO” and “But regardless of her desire for privacy, her career was public.”) are relatively minor in size, so it becomes really a question of which is right, the second or the fourth, as well as the consensus reached.
The second camp wants the article deleted in the spirit of the BLP policy, which is certainly valid. The subject said she does not want it affecting her life negatively, which is what said policy tries to keep from happening on this encyclopedia. As Durova stated, “The difference to Wikipedia's completeness is trivial; the difference to her life is enormous.” This is certainly true, we have to realize that Wikipedia plays a major role in the lives of those that are notable, for better or worse. Consequently, the fourth camp says that despite the request, the subject is notable beyond simple means. That creates a different question: How notable does one have to be to usurp BLP? Certainly if John McCain requested deletion then it would be impossible to do, as he’s very encyclopedic. However, if John Leovich were to (be alive and) request deletion, his notability is just barely of encyclopedic worth, and deletion of the biography wouldn’t be an issue. Is Jolie McCain notable or Leovich notable? obviously most bios are in between, which causes the grey area problem. She was a penthouse pet, which while nice, I don’t think anyone would say that’s Britannica-worthy. Now, is there anything defamatory in the bio? No. Does that matter according to the BLP policy? No. Is she suddenly going to become world-famous as a result of this bio being gone from the site? No.
This is where administrative discretion comes in. Any admin could just say "no consensus" and walk away, but the concerns over how the BLP policy applies will still be there, as will the debate over how notable you need to be to qualify for no article deletion. It comes down to WP:NPF in a way. While she is a public figure, technically, she is relatively unknown, and as a result bios such as this should be treated with care. So, if there is no consensus on what to do with the article, what does our desire to not cause harm to those we have an entry on ask of us? It is not stated specifically one way or the other, but removal of an article that fails to attain consensus where the subject has requested deletion is, I believe, a great start. Now, I could care less whether or not Jolie has an article on here; this close is based on what BLP means not just to the encyclopedia that we know, but to the encyclopedia the world knows. If a barely notable person requests deletion, and there is no consensus on what to do, what happens? Well, under the concept of basic human dignity, the article, sans proof of there being strong notability, should be deleted.
I definitely looked at this AfD for a while, and feel that this is the best option for Wikipedia and the subject in question. If you have an issue with the close (I imagine many will both love and hate this close), then discuss with me before you get angry at it. If enough complain about the close then I’ll self-DRV, though I truly believe this is the correct close. My close is based both on the reading of the AfD and, more importantly, our policy on living people. Like I said above though, if you have a problem, then talk to me about it. I'll try and explain my reasoning, though I hope that I did so above.
- Close: no consensus, default to delete. Wizardman 23:23, 20 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]