Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Leonard R. Brand

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus because 6 editors wanted to keep and 7 wanted to delete it.

Okay that's not really why, but those are the rough totals, i.e. a split between participants, and too few participants for such an incredibly long discussion. There were a number of valid points made by editors on both sides with respect to notability.

I think there's a reason this AfD sat around for several days without being closed, aside from it being really long, namely that there's no good way to "read" it given the nature of the discussion. One editor made 61 edits to this page and contributed a great deal of verbiage, while his main interlocutor contributed 25 and also said a bunch of stuff. This is not to mention the exchanges on Talk:Leonard R. Brand which are related to the discussion here (and which I read a lot of but most certainly did not read in total because, uhh, I just couldn't). That's all well and good and I don't doubt the good intentions of folks involved in the discussion, but for as long as this fiksybusiness is, there are few real participants, and that's a major problem given the large amount of side chatter and the lack of agreement as to the outcome.

So I see this as "no consensus" not so much because of the !vote totals or even the arguments--though that's part of it--but because this AfD just didn't unfold in a way that is conducive to coming to any sort of Wiki-style consensus. For now we default to keep due to the lack of consensus, but I think the following should really, really, really happen going forward:

  1. Open a new AfD in a few months or so to revisit the matter (unless no one wants to, which is also quite fine).
  2. The primary participants here--you know who you are--who have flooded this AfD and the article with edits need to restrain themselves next time around.
  3. Discussion should be focused tightly on the quality of the sources and the specifics of the notability policies as applied to this person.
  4. The points about how WP:FRINGE relates to WP:PROF, made by Nsk92, need to be considered.
  5. Obviously keep working on the article in the meantime.

Basically this is a "no consensus, let's try again later" close. --Bigtimepeace | talk | contribs 09:07, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]