Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Featured log/August 2011

• It is not anymore required (or even desired) in featured lists to boldface the article's title. Also for "Lists of X" writing a definition "X is..." at the start is not that popular anymore. You are pretty free in what you write, but it is probably a good idea to mention "Israel", "football" and "champion" somewhere close to the start.
  • Alright. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Is "began play" proper English? (I am not a native speaker/writer.)
  • Yes, it is. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• You might want to add something like "in the same year" to the key ("Champions also won the Israeli State Cup", "Champions also won the League Cup")
  • Okay, fair point. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• "Full league standings and top scorer details not known at this time." Not known at all, or not known by the author of this list? Not sure whether such statement is common practice on wikipedia.
  • It is, I have written numerous featured articles and lists and used these exact words. It's just to make clear that the section is incomplete due to lack of reliable sources rather than incompleteness that the author is unaware of. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• The second part of this list is very heavy on tables with no prose. Also many tables are narrowish due to the images placed on the right side of the page. I suggest to write short introductory paragraphs for each of the sections; to place the images next to those prose sections and to have the tables run over the full width of the page. Text for those paragraphs can be taken partially from the main intro or from the notes.
  • It's a list, not an article. I don't think this is really necessary. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • I just thought that it might reduce empty space (below the images) and would make for a more pleasant view. I also like having the main points of the tables pointed out in prose. Alternatively the empty space could be filled with more images. bamse (talk) 19:58, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Hmmm... actually, I think you're right. My screen is very wide so I don't really notice this kind of thing, but making the window smaller makes me see what you mean... I'll write a few lines for the top of each section. — Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 20:25, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • What do you think now? —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:19, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          • Much better and the new prose sections also tell about regional diffferences. Could you do with one image in the "Israeli Premier League" section? This would allow the table to span the full width of the page. bamse (talk) 13:01, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
            • Okay. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 13:24, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• The 1942–43 season was "not finished". Could a note be added as to the circumstances?
  • Okay, done. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:24, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Why are Israeli League and Liga Alef joined in one table/section and not the other league names?
  • Fair point. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Why have an empty "Notes" column for the "Israeli League and Liga Alef" table?
  • For consistency with the other tables. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Remove the parentheses from "Top scorer" in the heading since it is confusing (in the table cells in fact the club and not the player's name is in parentheses.)
  • You've misunderstood the parantheses. They are there because "Top scorer" is on the second line of the table, beneath "Player" and "Goals". It is done this way so that you can sort by player name and number of goals. It's common practice on featured lists. See some of the others I've written, such as Luton Town F.C. league record by opponent or List of New York Cosmos all-stars. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Still not sure I understand. Why would removing the parantheses not allow for sorting? bamse (talk) 19:58, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • That's not the point; the parantheses show that "Top scorer" is something that comes before "Player" and "Goals", not the other way around; in other words, "Top scorer Player" not "Player Top scorer". —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 20:25, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • So if "Top scorer" was in the first line, it would be without parantheses, correct? (In this case it would not be possible to have "Player" and "Goals" be sortable, correct?) bamse (talk) 20:49, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          • Correct. It is in parantheses on the second line to show that it would be the first line normally, but isn't so that the table can be sortable. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 22:14, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Is it possible to put "Top scorer" above "Player" and "Goals" or would that brake sortability?
  • See above. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• "...club in this regard is Maccabi Tel Aviv, who have been..."; possibly "have"->"has"!?
  • Oh God, not this again. In British English, clubs are referred to in the plural when named ("Maccabi Tel Aviv have been") but in the singular when not ("The club has been"). Hope this clears that up. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Why are two districts with zero title wins mentioned in the last table?
  • To illustrate that there are districts in the country that have never had a title-winning side. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Possibly Israeli football could be linked to Football in Israel instead?
  • As a compromise I'll link "Israeli" to Football in Israel and leave "football" as it is. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 23:03, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

bamse (talk) 22:50, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• At the moment the table does not meet WP:ACCESS requirements; see the data tables tutorial.
• ref 2 needs the format parameter added to it to indicate that it is a PDF.
• The symbols used are not ACCESS-compliant. Replace the dagger and double-dagger with the {{dagger}} and {{double-dagger}} templates (the symbols redirect there, so you can just put in the braces) and the corresponding alt text.

Other than this it looks good. NapHit (talk) 13:06, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Okay. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 13:19, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Cliftonian did the second and third, and I have done the first.
    – HonorTheKing (talk) 03:10, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There's no alt text for the daggers and the you need to align the years centrally as they are to the left. NapHit (talk) 14:47, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, done. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 15:34, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Would appreciate the addition of "association" in front of football in the opening sentence of the lead.
• "began play in" reads very USEng to me...
• " Since the first league season, 1931–32, only Maccabi Tel Aviv have not been relegated." this factoid seems oddly placed in the lead. I know it's a "since the first season" fact, but it's a little incongruous for me. I suspect it'd be better off in the next para.
• "Including all of these league seasons..." any reason why you shouldn't just say "In all.."?
• "13 and 12 victories respectively" - prefer titles to victories here. Or championships.
• " who finished the season unbeaten and also won the Palestine Cup during that season" repetitive...
• Not really convinced the double needs to be capitalised here.
• "On Israel's independence..." perhaps "Following" or "After" or even "Upon"...
• Third Place -> Third place.
• Ref for Steimach playing for Hapoel Petah Tikva in the image caption?
• "since the very first league season" no need for "very"
• "came top" would prefer "finished top of the league" or similar.
• "third places " shouldn't that be singular?
• thrice - I love it but it's archaic, three times is much more commonly used.
• "In the 1966–68 season, often referred to as the "double season", the sixteen teams played each other twice at home and twice away during a season lasting two years." is that referenced? particularly the quote?
• " six new names" strictly it was six new teams.
• "Due in part to this, these teams are sometimes known as the country's "Big Four"" copy-and-paste from the lead. I know the info is the same, but couldn't you rephrase it a little so it doesn't stick in my craw?
• I'm not sure how accessible that pie chart is.

Do you think it should be removed?, the point in it was to show percentage. exemple that Hapoel and Maccai Tel Aviv almost won half of the titles.

• You use plainrowheaders in the titles table but not the preceding tables. Is there a reason for that?

Yes because plainrowheaders doesn't bold and center the text. easier to read (seen it as one of the exemples in ACCESS page).

I understand what it does, I'm just curious why you use it inconsistently in the article. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:28, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are right, I have redid all now to include plainrowheaders, for consistently matter.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 18:54, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• This is uber-anal but can you cite the cities/districts where the teams are stated to play?
• Ref 15, use pipeline to avoid the double full stop after F.C.
• External links dead for me (this could be me though).

Should tell people the official Israel FA page is in Hebrew, the Soccerway page (is it RS?) links to this week of this season, is that the intention? Perhaps worth an explanation. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:30, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Took Soccerway off and put "(Hebrew)" on the IFA one. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 18:57, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have changed the IFA to the english version, hope you don't mind.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 19:06, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good stuff. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 19:13, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• This has "Ligat ha'Al" as a category. What's that? There's no mention of it in the article.
• Similar question about Liga Alef.

My mistake about Liga Alef. Sorry. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:28, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- The Rambling Man (talk) 16:49, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Both me and Cliftonian done, I also moved the Ligat ha'Al category to Israeli Premier League.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 18:26, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

All done now. I don't know about the pie chart, as you say it may be an issue. I didn't do the plainrowheaders, I can only presume that was Honor; I've taken it off in any case. Ligat ha'Al is the Israeli Premier League's name in Hebrew, I don't know why the category is called that. I have added the translation to the lead. Liga Alef is mentioned in the article, it has a whole section in fact; have I misunderstood your question? External links are fine for me. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 18:40, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have expanded on a couple of points while you were fixing up the other bits.. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:41, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We should also talk to User:RexxS about the accessibility of the pie chart. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:44, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have commented on the above, in addion I sent RexxS a message and will see what he says.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 19:03, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If there is a concern about the accessibility of any object in a webpage, ask yourself a question such as "Is that object conveying information visually that ought to be also available to those who cannot see it?" In the case of the pie chart, it has all of its essential information also presented as text below the chart, so it provides the information. Of course, the visually-impaired can't take in at a glance information like 'Hapoel and Maccai Tel Aviv won almost half of the titles', but we are not actually denying anyone that information, we are merely adding a convenience for the sighted – much the same as a photo does when we add one. In fact, it would be true to say that the pie chart only summarises the information in the table (which is accessible), so the author is due some praise for enriching the information provided in the article. Well done! This is all just my humble opinion, of course, but feel free to ping me if there's anything I've been unclear about. Cheers --RexxS (talk) 23:38, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your opinion.
  – HonorTheKing (talk) 23:53, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lekker lekker. —Cliftonian^{the orangey bit} 07:49, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "For the first time, the Olympic Oath was taken by a female athlete, Italian alpine skier Giuliana Minuzzo." – I fail to see the relevance of this sentence in the context of this page. I would remove it.
  • Okay, done. Courcelles 02:12, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• "Both medal totals were the most of any nation at the Games." – Replace nation by NOC.
  • Same thing, really, as there were no NOC's for non-countries in Cortina, but so be it. Courcelles 02:12, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • True, but at least NOC is always correct, whatever the Games. Parutakupiu (talk) 12:55, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• I would link in some way the sentences about Sixten Jernberg and Toni Sailer's medals.
• You could move the image of Sixteen Jernberg to the "Multiple medalists" section, and put the one of Veikko Hakulinen (File:Veikko hakulinen.jpg) in the cross-country skiing medal section.
• There are a couple of medalists with images that you can use freely:
  • Chiharu Igaya → File:Chiharu Igaya.jpg
    • What evidence is there this was published before 1956 was complete? The source makes no such claim. Courcelles 02:12, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • You're right, you better not use this one. Sorry, I usually fail to check on these license restriction details. Parutakupiu (talk) 12:55, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sverre Stenersen → File:Sverre Stenersen.jpg (at the 1956 Games!)
    • I was looking at the licensing of this image and I wondered if other images from the official report could be used for the same purpose? That would be very helpful for notable athletes for which we don't have freely usable photos, like Toni Sailer. I have doubts though, so one could put that question forward at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. Parutakupiu (talk)
• Ref 2: it is a book source that is used only once. I'd say you provide here the full source info that it is instead displayed in the single-item "References" section.
  • Done. Courcelles 02:12, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Ref. 37: this looks more like a footnote with a reference associated. I'd place this in a "Footnotes" section above the "Notes" section (which I'd rename to "References").
  • Done Courcelles 02:12, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• The alt text of the Sixteen Jernberg image could be improved. For instance, the image does not say the guy on the left is called Sixteen (typo here) and that the photo was took at a Swedish Championships...

— Parutakupiu (talk) 15:32, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• • Okay, everything has been handled. Courcelles 22:14, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• One more thing: is the TOC going to stay like that or are you going to format it according to the other lists in this series? Parutakupiu (talk) 23:03, 7 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Like this. Hard coded TOC's are hard to use, take up extra bytes, and offer zero utility over the standard one. Courcelles 02:06, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • So you think all others should be changed back? Or just the ones that don't occupy a lot of vertical space? Parutakupiu (talk)
      • They should all be changed back, IMO, as the utility is non-existent. Courcelles 09:46, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • I don't think there will be a problem with that. The idea was avoid a lot of blank space created by long TOC, but that was mostly for the more recent Games with many events. Parutakupiu (talk)
          • Yeah, I actually like to look of the standard TOC's and the whitespace, but it would be excessive on the lists closer to the present. Courcelles 16:10, 11 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• In the lead photo caption, could we say somewhere that the event Albright won gold in was in figure skating? It looks weird just seeing "the American gold medallist in the ladies' singles event".
• Sverre Stenersen: Comma needed after "the 1952 bronze medalist in Nordic combined". Also, why do we have "medalist" here and "medallist" elsewhere?
• Note a: Don't think the hyphen is needed in "first-place".
• Very minor, but ref 6 doesn't have a period after the pp; this is inconsistent with the other book cites. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 02:22, 17 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Everything is taken care of. As to the "medalist vs. medallist" issue, blame my inability to keep various varieties of English straight. Courcelles 19:14, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "substantially identical " gah, either identical or not, it kind have partial identicalness...! Maybe just "similar"?
• "medallist" vs "meters" I would have thought for USEng that should be medalist.
  • Bah, just easier to put it all in USEng, though I suck at remembering what is what these days Courcelles 03:24, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• "ladies' singles" - is "singles" strictly necessary here since there isn't a "ladies' pairs" is there?
  • No, but women do compete in the pairs, and the ice dancing events, though there was not one of those in 1956. You almsot always write the gender and singles when referring to an event in figure skating, though. Courcelles 03:24, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• "medaliist " now that is an innovative spelling...
• Glass or Glaß?
• When sorting by number of bronze medals, what is the sorting mechanism? I get two athletes with just two bronzes followed by one with two bronzes and a gold... confused.

The Rambling Man (talk) 12:11, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• • Safari, again, I imagine. Usual hack, I made the 2 with a gold sort like a 3, which seems to make things work on that browser. Everything else was simple, but handled, so no individual comments. Courcelles 03:24, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "Nichols' 10 wins and Dickie Noles' 11 losses are best." I wouldn't say the pitcher losing the most games is "best". How about saying "highest" there?
• "He amassed an 1–7 pitching record...". "an" → "a".
• Lead photo caption could use a cite for the Boston info. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:22, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Done all. — KV5 • Talk • 11:20, 10 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• The postseason Baseball-Reference source doesn't seem to cover NL pennant winnners from before the 1900s. This looks better suited for the material; try substituting it for the current ref 2. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:07, 21 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Ah, good call. Done. — KV5 • Talk • 23:38, 21 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from KV5

• "was formed in 1939" - comma after
  • Done.
• Remove duplicate "Faroe Islands Football Association" link
  • Done.
• "The Faroe Islands joined FIFA on 2 July 1988, and played its first official match, a 1–0 defeat against Iceland, on 24 August 1988." - lots of commas here, looks choppy. I suggest changing to parentheses or em-dashes for the latter broken phrase.
  • Done.
• "first ever competitive match"
  • Done.
• "Its heaviest loss" - this reads awkward, at least in US English. I suggest worst loss instead.
  • Done.
• "to nil three times;" - semicolon here should be colon, and the listed items thereafter should be separated by semicolons instead of commas
  • Done.
• Blank table cells need em-dashes, preferably centered.
  • I did try before but it messes up the sort function. I'll add it to the goalscorers section if I must, I just think it looks ugly.
    • To fix sorting, set the sortkey as "zzzzz" since you are sorting words. If it's numbers, set as -1. — KV5 • Talk • 21:14, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Ah, good stuff. All done. Argyle 4 Life^talk 14:45, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Table does not meet WP:ACCESS requirements; see the data tables tutorial.
  • Can you be specific? The tables I create are always the same and I've never had a problem with them.
    • The FL criteria have changed dramatically in regards to what WP:ACCESS requires. The tutorial covers most of it, but what is needed specifically in this case is at least a table caption and row headers, scopes added. There are no colors/symbols to worry about, and no nested tables. — KV5 • Talk • 21:14, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thanks for the information. I've amended the tables so that they meet the criteria. Argyle 4 Life^talk 14:45, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • Good job getting the headers in, but I think that since this is a list of results, the results (score column) should actually be the header. And yes, the header can be in the middle of the row. — KV5 • Talk • 21:13, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          • All sorted. I hope. Argyle 4 Life^talk 12:37, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Lead image needs alt text.
  • Done.
• One dablink; see toolbox.
  • Done. Always one isn't there.

Hope these comments help. — KV5 • Talk • 00:15, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Not blown away by the opening sentence. I know it's better than "This is a list..." but it's a little like stating the obvious to me...! The links are all important though, so perhaps a re-word?
  • I have comments from previous FLCs ringing in my ears about considering the casual reader. Most that I've seen tend to state the obvious. I guess it could be spiced up a bit. What would you suggest?
• Perhaps link "friendly" for our US friends.
  • Done.
• "The team won its first ... when they..." change from singular to plural mid-sentence.
  • Changed.
• The team's largest victory came on 25 May 1995 when they defeated San Marino by three goals to nil.[4] Its worst..." Singular, plural, singular. The only reason this is standing out at all to me is that I would never use the singular. If it's fine with everyone else then just ignore me.
  • Changed. I tried to not use British English all the way through because it's an international article but I see that I messed up in a few areas. Should be okay now, singular for country, plural for team.
• St. Jakob Park should be hyphenated.
  • Done. The only place in the article that the hyphened version is used is in the title which seems odd to me.
• Why not have the relevant key with the relevant tables?
  • I thought that was how it's done. I'll change it.

The Rambling Man (talk) 13:13, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. Argyle 4 Life^talk 14:15, 9 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "when they defeated San Marino by three goals to nil" any reason the score is written out? seems a little odd to have that one written out and then the one next to it in numerals.
  • Variety. I can't remember which FLC it was but I remember being told that wording things differently makes it more enjoyable for the reader. Repeating the same things over and over is bland.
• when you set sort button in the descending mode in the attendance column the numbers are not in the correct order this needs fixing.
  • It works fine for me. Unless you have clicked it more than a couple of times? It sorts differently but that is due to a few of the attendances not being available and I'm unaware of how to avoid it
    • For me, it doesn't actually sort properly even on first click. Shows how thorough my review was... There may be better ways of working round it, but one way is to force what Help:Sorting#Sort modes calls "currency" mode, by using {{sort|$0|NK}} for the unknown ones. That makes the NK fields sort as zeroes and the numeric fields sort numerically as well. hope this helps, Struway2 (talk) 19:35, 21 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • That works for me. Everyone else? No wonder the sorting looked fine to me because I was being lazy. The first 20 entries sorted fine and it screwed up further down the page, which I didn't scroll down to. It jumped from 1,000s to 10,000s to 100. Oops. Argyle 4 Life^talk 19:46, 21 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

These were the only two faults I could find with the list, once they are rectified I'll be glad to support. NapHit (talk) 18:10, 21 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. Argyle 4 Life^talk 19:15, 21 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Remove "the" from "represents the Auburn University"?

Done

• "Seven coaches also won conference championships". The word "also" is a bit misleading, since some of these coaches are different than the ones in the last sentence. Better to just drop it.

Removed

• Key: Second word of National Championships should be de-capitalized since it isn't a proper noun.

Done

• Note 4: En dash needed in "win-loss percentage" to replace the hyphen.

Done

• Note 6: Comma would be nice after "Bill Oliver served as interim head coach for the final five games of the season".

Done

• In reference 13, spell out AL like you do in the general reference.

Done

• Spot-checking note: If ref 14 is meant to be citing the date Terry Bowden resigned, it doesn't. It has the month, but I don't see the exact date. Would be nice to have another cite for that.

Good call. Additional reference added. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:30, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments addressed. Thanks for taking a look at this and please feel free to let me know if you see anything else needing attention. Patriarca12 (talk) 00:24, 1 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I will support this on the following two conditions:

1. Addition of a second image to the article

I did add a Chizik image, but it did not look right as it pushed towards the table, so I did not include it. I am more that happy to include it if others in this discussion are alright with it.

1. An explanation here on why coaches with no bowls are both listed as &dash-&dash-&dash and 0-0-0 at points in the article Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 01:40, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Citation added to explain why &dash-&dash-&dash and 0-0-0 are both used in the table.

Thanks for taking a look at this! Patriarca12 (talk) 02:11, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Peter should be linked in the photo caption

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 21:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Instead of using the film a lot, trying referring to it by its title or the movie or the adaption

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 21:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Since you're focusing on the film's US box office, in the first sentence you should mentioned that it is an American movie

• Funny to think the film is indeed American, seeing as how the cast in British/Australian! Ruby2010 comment! 21:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• The b.o. numbers are too specific.

• Would you suggest I round the figures? I don't want to give inaccurate data Ruby2010 comment! 21:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "Since then, the film grossed a total US box office gross of USD $93,927,920," needs some re-wording

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 21:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "with an approval rating of 85 percent on the review aggregator" better off without the the imo

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 21:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• I think cinematography would be better off unlinked

• Which use of cinematography? Ruby2010 comment! 21:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Unlink film journal in ref 2 per overlink

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 21:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Same for 27

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 21:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Ditto for ref 34

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 21:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• And also 46

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 21:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Ref 33 needs to be replaced as IMDb is not an RS

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 23:14, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• And 36

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 23:14, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Same for 26

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 23:14, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• And 44

• In this case, the direct website said to use IMDb as a source. I indicated this in the refs (see #43) Ruby2010 comment! 23:14, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• And 53

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 23:14, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Unlink Variety in ref 58

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 21:12, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Also for 64

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 23:14, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Unlink LA Times in 46 per overlink

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 21:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Why is NBoRoMP cited as the author of the press release but not also the publisher?

• It's because of the press release cite template (the publisher is always listed first, as with ref 61) Ruby2010 comment! 21:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Same for 61

• See above Ruby2010 comment! 21:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Unlink NBoR in ref 49

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 21:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Is there any other source you could use besides E! Online (ref 55) because I'm not aware of it being a RS

• E! is indeed a RS (it has its own editorial staff and is owned by NBCUniversal). Ruby2010 comment! 21:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Crystal Clear x3 04:59, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• One more thing: NYTimes Company should not be added in the 'general references' since all the other source do not also cite publishers Crystal Clear x3 05:03, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Quite right. Done Ruby2010 comment! 21:22, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "directed by Peter Weir. Weir...". The repetition from one sentence to another isn't optimal. It isn't the most artful solution, but "He" is always an option for after the period.

• Added "He" Ruby2010 comment! 04:22, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "the David Lean Award for Achievement in Directing: Weir's direction received...". Is the colon meant to be a period? Feels like it the way this is structured.

• I don't see a colon (..."Master and Commander received eight nominations, ultimately winning in four of them, including the David Lean Award for Achievement in Directing. Weir's direction received a total of eleven nominations, while he and Collee's screenwriting earned four.") is all I see. Ruby2010 comment! 04:22, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Why does the caption read "Peter Weir received over fifteen nominations for his direction of Master and Commander" when the lead gives his number of directing noms as eleven? Even if the screenwriting is included, that would only equal fifteen.

• You're right. Fixed Ruby2010 comment! 04:22, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Also in the infobox, I count 22 wins, not 23. Worth a double-check.

• You're right. Double-checked and fixed Ruby2010 comment! 04:22, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• While I'm talking about the infobox, can we make "Awards & Nominations" into "Awards & nominations"? The last word has no reason to be capitalized.

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 04:22, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Check the Category column of the table for places with hyphens that should instead be en dashes; I see quite a few of them.

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 04:22, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Giants2008 (27 and counting) 00:31, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• directed by Peter Weir. Weir and screenwriter --> The consecutive Weirs look weird. Try to rephrase that part.

• Giants caught that too. Fixed Ruby2010 comment! 04:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Russell Crowe and Paul Bettany starred among a large ensemble cast --> Russell Crowe and Paul Bettany starred in the film, alongside a large ensemble cast

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 04:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• falling into second place behind Elf --> That's actually wrong since that was the movie's debut week so it cannot exactly fall into second place.

• Sorry, don't quite understand you here. Elf was on its second week, but still placed first over Master and Commander. Unless you mean something else? Ruby2010 comment! 04:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • What I mean is that Master & Commander debuted on the box office list at number two, so saying that it fell behind Elf is wrong, since that was its debut week. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 07:04, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Ah, I see. Fixed it to say the film debuted in second place. Thanks, Ruby2010 comment! 15:38, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• USD $93.9 million --> phrases like this make me wonder about their expansion, or readability. For eg: if I expand it, it will read United States dollar dollar 93.9 million. I would suggest a simple $93.9 million would suffice, with only one wikilink.

• Done (removed "USD", added one wikilink for $) Ruby2010 comment! 04:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Add the word website before Rotten Tomatoes as review aggregators are of different kind.

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 04:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Performances by the cast were also recognized --> Second consecutive sentence to use the word recognition in verb form, try changing it to honor or something.

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 04:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Have a summation line at the end of the lead sayinng how many awards the film won from how many nominations.

• Done (added "Overall, the film won twenty awards out of eight nominations") Ruby2010 comment! 04:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Also the last line of the lead needs a rephrasing. At present its pretty vague with "other media outlets".

• Note sure to make this less "vague". Changed media outlets to simply "media" (?) Ruby2010 comment! 04:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• American Film Institute Awards date should be December 2003, not 04.

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 04:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• When you are using WP:CITEKILL like reference 15, please have a heading line to indicate what are the references about.

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 04:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Reference 33 needs a language parameter

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 04:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Reference titles need en-dash, check throughout. This applies to the award category names too.

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 04:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

These are some concerns I have. — Legolas ^(talk2me) 11:44, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for the look-over. Ruby2010 comment! 04:39, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Quick question, what makes it an "American adventure film"? It has a multinational cast, multinational screening etc, is it solely funded by an American studio? It is set in Napoleonic times..

• As funny as it sounds, I've only been able to find sources that call it an American film, probably because of the American studios. Do you think I should just remove the film's nationality altogether? Ruby2010 comment! 19:38, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• I wouldn't bother, what is the nationality of movie after all? The Rambling Man (talk) 19:39, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "place behind Elf.[5][6] Since then, the film reached a US box o" reiterate M&C as you've mentioned Elf in the meantime.

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 19:38, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "twenty awards out of eighty nominations" - infobox says 22/80

• Fixed Ruby2010 comment! 19:38, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Can we make the date of ceremony col a bit wider so it doesn't span two rows?

• Better? Ruby2010 comment! 19:47, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Yep. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:03, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• New Zealand Herald is The New Zealand Herald.

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 19:38, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• IMDB is not considered a WP:RS.

• I'll just repeat what I told the other two editors above: In this case, the direct website said to use IMDb as a source. I indicated this in the refs (see #43) Ruby2010 comment! 19:38, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 19:15, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Chaka Kahn ->Chaka Khan.

Done. --Another Believer _(Talk) 21:47, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Any reason the nationality column isn't sortable? (I bet my mortgage I know the answer to this, by the way...!)

Done. What was your guess? I am not sure I have a reason. --Another Believer _(Talk) 21:47, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Copied from (the male?) list where no sorting was needed as no-one bar Americans won...? The Rambling Man (talk) 10:07, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: In the table it says that Fitzgerald won the first award for A Perfect Match but in the lead it reads Digital III, is there any reason why?. Jaespinoza (talk) 17:01, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Most likely. --Another Believer _(Talk) 15:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• 1986 work is notable but article doesn't exist (fine) but 1990 work is not notable enough for a red link?

Done. --Another Believer _(Talk) 21:47, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Reorder cats so establishment comes before disestablishment.

Done, though I thought categories were meant to be in ABC order (apart from one or two "anchor" categories). I love categories but I wish there were an established and enforced method to there madness. --Another Believer _(Talk) 21:47, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have seen people putting categories into alphabetical order, but I haven't seen a guideline/policy to back up their actions... The Rambling Man (talk) 10:07, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good to know! --Another Believer _(Talk) 15:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 19:51, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, TRM! --Another Believer _(Talk) 21:47, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please let me know if there are any other concerns that need to be addressed. --Another Believer _(Talk) 15:09, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from KV5

• Remove periods/full stops from the end of alt texts that are fragments

Done. --Another Believer _(Talk) 15:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Some clarification needed on what things are italicized, what are in quotes, etc.

Added "(songs or albums)" to the lead. --Another Believer _(Talk) 15:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Remove commas from captions, I think they are all extraneous.

Done. --Another Believer _(Talk) 15:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• N/A's don't sort properly.

Not sure how to correct this (same with the Male Jazz Performance list). --Another Believer _(Talk) 15:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done (see FLC review for similar male list). --Another Believer _(Talk) 19:16, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hope this helps. — KV5 • Talk • 00:28, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! --Another Believer _(Talk) 15:08, 3 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Repetition in "DLSU traces its traces its founding" needs to be removed.
  • Still see two "traces". Giants2008 (27 and counting) 18:27, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• More repetition from sentence to sentence in "Jeremiah James Hardy. Hardy...". Could be fixed be changing the second name to "He" or something similar.
• In that same sentence, should "is instrumental" be "was instrumental"? Seems like that would be correct grammatical tense for an historic fact like this.
• "His request would be later endorsed in 1907 by the Pope Pius X." Flip the order of "be" and "later", and remove "the" before Pope.
• Sorting of the presidents isn't working properly for some reason.
• References 72 and 73 are showing up as bare links, without a title.
• All caps in references 60 and 95 should be removed.
  • Still in 95 ("PROFILE"), though 60 is done. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 18:27, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Publisher of reference 109 should be outside the link itself.
• If the Asian Journal (reference 113) is a printed publication, the publisher should be italicized. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:26, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done. I made it unsortable. It seems that sorting doesn't work for multirow cells. Help:Table Moray An Par (talk) 04:18, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Moray An Par (talk) 05:28, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Five paras in the lead is a little overkill, especially given them being short paras.
• "University association" is a red link. Is that for real? Is it so insignificant that we don't have an appropriate article or section of another article?
• Not sure the heading of the column should be "relationship", reads odd to me.
• What is NA as a discipline? Needs explanation.
• What's PBA? The table is sortable so make sure everything is linked every time.
• Faculty and Alumni tables should have cols same width from section to section, on Safari they're not.
• Would prefer to see notes in numerical order (see the honorary table)
• Presidents table is unsortable, acting is sortable. Seems odd. I know why, but it still seems odd. It would be better to have individual lines for each stretch as president.
• You don't need Category:De La Salle University as you have a more refined category in Category:De La Salle University alumni.

The Rambling Man (talk) 16:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The lead has been shortened. I know its so odd that university association doesn't have its own article. I raised this issue at WT:UNI sometime ago. What would like as an alternative for "relationship"? It seems to be the standard in university alumni lists. Other concerns have been addressed. Moray An Par (talk) 12:17, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• I think em dashes should be aligned at center.
• Cite the format of Ref 2, 10, 11, 25, 32, etc as they are in pdf format.
• In "Presidents" table dashes are in random fashion, correct them.
• Why there were two "acting presidents"? Term of Lucian Athanasius Reinhart extended from 1945–1950, but still there were two acting presidents in this period, I'm confused. Maybe it would be better if you add something there, I mean a prose before table.
• In my view, there should be a alt text for each image.
• What is this "Secondary" in the "Relationship" column?
• Tagalog: Pamantasang De La Salle → Tagalog: Pamantasang De La Salle, this is with lang template, don't know whether its use is mandatory or not.

DLSU used to have a high school department. Are the alt text needed? Don't the pictures describe who is in it already? All other concerns have been addressed. Moray An Par (talk) 01:03, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm not sure about the usage of Alt text, and honestly don't know whether they are compulsory to use in featured list, but I guess they are pretty much necessary in featured articles, so please check MOS for that.
• Please mention this fact that DLSU used to have a high school department and this "secondary" attribute is related to that, because every field in table [at least] should be described/understandable whether in accompanying prose or by using legend (key table).

The alt text is used so that screen readers will read the actual description of the images as opposed to prose which are sometimes used as captions. In this list, all captions indicate who/what are in the photos so I think there won't be any need for alt texts. The lead has been expanded to accommodate info regarding the deprecated grade school and high school departments. Moray An Par (talk) 04:45, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Alumnus Tomas Manotoc is not mentioned at all in the reference (ref 69)
• File:Yuchengco Hall1.jpg should not be used for this article. It is a non-free image, and I don't see how it meets criterion 8 (does the image significantly add to readers' understanding of the topic).
• Cecilia Muñoz-Palma: "First women Supreme Court of the Philippines justice" Change "women" to "female".
• What references the fact that Narciso S. Erguiza is the current president? I don't see anything in the source.
• Dead links need to be fixed. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:08, 13 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 76 is still not working. Dabomb87 (talk) 21:05, 20 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Replaced. Albacore (talk) 00:42, 21 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator is on a wikibreak until October, so I've fixed all outstanding comments. Albacore (talk) 14:46, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• The list should be renamed to "List of Square Enix video games" instead of just "List of Square Enix games", as the latter would have to include any spinoff actual physical games that Square Enix might have released based off of some video game property.

• Done. --PresN 18:13, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• The lead needs to be expanded to include more about the merger of the company (to explain why all the entries are from 2003 and later) and any success the company has had or its reason for its success. Maybe make a mention of some of its larger franchises? We're really charting new territory here as this is the first time a company's games list has been nominated for WP:FL, so I think you should at least flesh out some of the basics of the company much as one would flesh out the basics of the video game series in something like List of Wario video games.

• Expanded the lead; is that what you had in mind? --PresN 18:44, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• What makes Siliconera (ref #168) a reliable source?

• Used as a source by RS's 1UP.com1 1UP.com2 1UP.com3, Kotaku, Shack News1 Shack News2, Eurogamer, Arstechnica. I had something else written down about them, but I can't find it right now- I've used it in FAs and FLs before. --PresN 18:09, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is an excellent list, and with the exception of a few problems, a job well done. Nomader (talk) 19:44, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Be consistent in whether you provide publisher locations for books or not
  • Fixed. Removed location from one reference. bamse (talk) 14:48, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Retrieval dates are not needed for convenience links (Google Books for instance) to print-based sources
  • I thought so too, but in this FLC, Afro pointed me to {{Cite book}} which states: "accessdate: ... Should be used when url parameter is used." bamse (talk) 14:48, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Ref 199 and 207 are only citing Adolphson and Kamens as authors of the Heian Japan book, whilst the bibliographical entry also cites Matsumoto as author of the book
  • Fixed. Added Matsumoto. bamse (talk) 14:48, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• In the bibliography but with no citations: Brokaw & Chow (2005); Eliot & Rose (2009); Miner, Odagiri & Morrell (1988); Sansom & Sansom (1961) and Wedgeworth (1992)
  • Fixed. Removed all of them. They only applied to another list which was at some point split off from this list of Japanese books. bamse (talk) 15:17, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• The ISBNs ought to be hyphenated (I can do that for you)
  • I read ISBN and added hyphens to the first entry in the bibliography (Addiss, Groemer, Rimer). It was hard work. Is there a (semi)-automatic method to do this? bamse (talk) 14:57, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• There is a bit of WP:CITEKILL in this list. Have you considered bundling them?
  • Will have a look at it. bamse (talk) 14:57, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks a lot for your edits/fixes in the bibliography already. I am slowly working my way through the article in order to reduce CITEKILL. Should be done with it by tomorrow. bamse (talk) 00:14, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Done. I reduced CITEKILL by joining related citations or removing some refs which said the same as others. bamse (talk) 01:17, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise it looks fine, and the research and work you have put into this list (and many others) is impressive Bamse. All the best, Eisfbnore • talk 12:42, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Close paraphrase check

I do not have the time to check each sentence in this list for close paraphrasing, but I'll note the few I find below. A tip to avoid close paraphrasing is to write from muliple sources and move content between sentences.

• Article: "…the Engishiki, the greatest legal compendium of the ritsuryō age.[198][199] It was compiled from 905 to 927 by Tadahira and others under command of Emperor Daigo." Source: "The Engishiki was compiled between 905 and 927 under the command of Emperor Daigo." [11]