Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Featured log/September 2011

Add wikilink to Spider-Man film franchise in lead

done

• "Overall, the film series has received a strong to polarized reception from critics." What do you mean by strong? Negative or positive?

done

• Any critics naming any of the films the best of the year (or decade, or out of other superhero franchises?) Might be interesting to add to last sentence in lead

done

• I count 98 nominations, not 96 in both infobox and full lists

done

• "having a heart to it" doesn't sound very encyclopedic

removed

• "Dunst's performance as an aspiring actress who works as a waitress at a run down diner..." I think you can cut out the "run down diner" part (otherwise it's a little wordy)

done

• When you say the films were released to theaters, I assume you mean in the US. Perhaps indicate this (i.e. the film was released to US theaters on ...)

done

• "It eventually made more than $783 million[31] ..." I assume you mean worldwide?

done

• The IGN quote needs a citation

It does, ref 36.

• "Out of the movie's three Academy Award nominations – Best Sound Editing, Best Sound Mixing and Best Visual Effects – Spider-Man 2 was awarded the latter." I don't think latter works here, but correct me if I'm wrong

done

• Spider-man 3: specific release date? (rather than May 2007)

done

• "Peter must face his biggest challenge yet: fighting a rival photographer that the symbiote then refuged..." Refuged?

reworded

• It's The New York Times and The New York Times Company (see general references)

done

• CNBC is not italicized

done

• It's New York (magazine is not in the title)

done

• Ref 47: Andre Soares is author

done

• Ref 52: Visual Effects Society Award -> Visual Effects Society Awards

done

• Ref 53 is missing parameters (date etc)

done for the accessdate, no url because its a treelink

• Wall Street Journal -> The Wall Street Journal

done

• NPR is not italicized

done

• Ref 60: add date (Feb 9, 2008)

done

• Digital Spy is not italicized

done

• Ref 68: publisher is Visual Effects Society

done

These need resolving. Ruby2010 comment! 18:44, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all of your comments! Crystal Clear x3 02:58, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why no URL for ref 53 (World Stunt Awards)? I assume you didn't look the website up with restricted access (like for a newspaper). Ruby2010 comment! 03:31, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've replaced the ref. Did I miss something with the other four? Crystal Clear x3 03:56, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, they're fine. I just didn't want to bury the Ref 53 comment in the template. Ruby2010 comment! 03:59, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• • I'd recommend renaming the article to List of accolades received by the Spider-Man film series, because it doesn't really cover accolades for other Spider-Man media like comics and video games. –Drilnoth (T/C) 19:53, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • done
  • Remove the "See also" section. Those articles aren't really related to the topic at all. –Drilnoth (T/C) 19:53, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • done
  • References should not use "Inc." and the like as part of company names. –Drilnoth (T/C) 19:53, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • done
  • I'd recommend using the same color scheme for each table. Either the green or orange could work (or maybe a dark red or blue to tie in thematically to the topic?), but not the bright yellow currently used in the first table. –Drilnoth (T/C) 19:53, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • done
  • "Spider-Man 2 was named the third best superhero movie of all-time by IGN and Time magazine." (third paragraph) needs a reference. –Drilnoth (T/C) 19:53, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • done
  • (prose, table contents, and reference reliability not checked). –Drilnoth (T/C) 19:53, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "franchise" or "film series" in the lead?

done

• Awards & Nominations -> nominations. There should be a dedicated infobox for this, not a freestyle hard-coded table.

done

• J.K. -> J. K.

done

• Gwen Stacey->Stacy.

done

• Spider-man 3 appears to rank 21 now, not 19. Perhaps worth putting an "As of..." in front of this sentence to be sure.

corrected

• Check other two films positions.

done

• Don't think you should start a sentence with "Whereas..."

done

• And why not list them as 26th and 28th rather than in words?

done

• "and getting an " -> "with an"

done

• "and a score of 6.2/10[8] Metacritic lists" missing some punctuation here.

done

• "gathered 5 Academy Award " -> five.

done

• " won a total of two " not sure the point of "a total of" here.

done

• A lot of relinking after the lead, any reason?

After first linking them in the lead, I chose to link them once again on first use only

• link "crush" appropriately if you insist on using it.

reworded

• "Best Dramatic Presentation - Long Form" en-dash please.

done

• "US theatres " I suspect that should be theaters, right?

done

• "most well-received " -> "best received"?

done

• "bonds with him" well most of us would take that as being "made friends with" so you'd better elucidate. Or is that what you mean?

fixed

• "Peter must face his biggest challenge yet:" sounds like you're reading the DVD blurb... this is an encyclopaedia, remember?

lol fixed

• A general consensus -> The general..

done

• "the former for Best Animated Effects and Best Special Visual Effects" I think you're missing "and the latter for..." aren't you?

done

• "lost all four of" do you really "lose" nominations? Or do you just "not win" them?

done

• Would advocate adding location= to works and publishers that could be general, like The Independent, I'd make work=London.

done

• Newspaper refs like ref 57, 58 etc should have page number references.

removed refs Crystal Clear x3 03:41, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 19:17, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Lead: Never liked seeing "amongst" and prefer "among". May just be me, though.

done

• Spider-Man: Don't need the comma after "Dunst's performance as an aspiring actress who works as a waitress".

done

• Spider-Man 2: "and broke the best opening-day ever title." Needs "record for", and the flipping of "ever" and "title" in order.

done'

• Maguire and Raimi respectfully picked up the...". "respectfully" → "respectively"?

done

• Spider-Man 3: Remove apostrophe from "opening's".

done

• "Spider-Man 3 did not win any of all four of the Visual Effects Society Awards nominations it received." Would be a little simpler to read if "any of the four Visual Effects Society Awards" were put in there.

done

• Remove another apostrophe from "performance's". Giants2008 (27 and counting) 16:52, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

done Crystal Clear x3 09:39, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• One more: in "Nonetheless, Spider-Man 3 surpassed the previous two film's openings", the apostrophe in "film's" should be moved to the end of the word. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 19:11, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

done Crystal Clear x3 03:08, 12 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• The table fails WP:ACCESS at the moment, see MOS:DTT for details of how to rectify this. NapHit (talk) 23:06, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Following an example provided by DTT, I think I've now fixed the charts correctly. Crystal Clear x3 05:30, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You just need to add scope row and then its done, I've done one cell for you as an example. NapHit (talk) 10:46, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the example. How's the table now? Crystal Clear x3 08:28, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You missed a few rows but I've done them now. NapHit (talk) 12:52, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Does UK need a hyperlink?

• You're right, it was overlinked, so have removed it. Miyagawa (talk) 11:20, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• In Ref1, why "The Organising Committee for the XIV Olympiad" is italicized?

• It was slotted in the work section of the cite web template, have now moved it to publisher and removed the LA84 publisher as it was only the host. Miyagawa (talk) 11:20, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Full stops in captions.

• Added. Miyagawa (talk) 11:20, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• The info in the captions is not mentioned in the body of the article, so add citations with captions.

• Added the cite to the first image, second image is now explained in main article text. Miyagawa (talk) 11:20, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• At least mention the country represented by Cabrera (nationality), like Argentinian Delfo Cabrera....or Delfo Cabrera of Argentina.....

• Done. Miyagawa (talk) 11:20, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Employ web access requirements to fulfill WP:Access (see MOS:DTT).

• I think I've put this in place now, but would appreciate if someone could check I've got it all. Having problems inserting a caption as the table is set up using a template which I'd have to edit to include a caption - has anyone got any alternatives? Miyagawa (talk) 16:33, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Don't use template, last time I was in the same position. You should better check here.

• Thanks, I've ended up taking the top off the medal table from 2010 Asian Para Games medal table, so I think it meets the Access requirements but someone more familiar with them might want to double check. Miyagawa (talk) 20:57, 14 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to this observer (and sometime deployer/reworker of wikitables in service of WP:ACCESS). — JohnFromPinckney (talk) 00:30, 15 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

scope="row" should be used for nation as it's a primary entry for each row, not the rank. — Bill william compton^Talk 04:54, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed - and I'm going to go back and check the last medal table I worked up as I'm sure this wasn't done there and I'd like to make sure it matches up. Miyagawa (talk) 08:16, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Why the number of silver medals is greater than gold or bronze?

• Had to look into it, but added an extra paragraph to explain. Miyagawa (talk) 16:33, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't be that para would look better in the "Medal table" section, because it clears the discrepancy in between medal categories.

• Moved as suggested. Miyagawa (talk) 20:52, 14 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Is the entity "country" or "nation"?

• Corrected everything to nation as nation is included in the medal table template. Miyagawa (talk) 11:20, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Why there is no citation for medal table?

• Added. Miyagawa (talk) 16:33, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Add "location" (place of publication) parameter in general ref.

• Was already there as "Westport, Conn". Miyagawa (talk) 11:20, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Don't you think Connecticut should be expanded?

• Done. Miyagawa (talk) 16:33, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Remove space in between LA and 84 in LA84 Foundation.

• Have since removed. Miyagawa (talk) 11:20, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "standard design used for the Olympic medals between 1928 and 1968", but image is of 1980 Olympics.

• Now explained in article text. The obverse side was continued to be used until 2004 with the exception of 1992. Miyagawa (talk) 11:20, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

— Bill william compton^Talk 12:45, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Ok, I think I've covered each of the points you've raised. Thanks for your feedback! :) Miyagawa (talk) 16:33, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Yep, JohnFromPinckney is right, neither caption needs a full stop.
• Why link London if you don't link UK?
• May consider BritEng dates, dmy rather than mdy. World War II -> Second World War.
• "to have run the" -> to have hosted the.
• " yet formed a National Olympic Committee," well they wouldn't form one, perhaps one each..
• "to receive and invitation to complete" -> "an invitation to compete" perhaps?
• " International Olympics Committee " link. Abbreviate. And don't link/expand afterwards.
• "In comparison" -> "By comparison"
• " from the games" you've called it Games previously and subsequently...
• "twenty three " hyphenate.
• Gymnastics -> gymnastics.
• Link "pommel horse"

The Rambling Man (talk) 19:32, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I've edited it to match your suggestions. Also linked men's vault, and realised that in the final paragraph of he first section I'd said "event" there times in three sentences, and so reduced that too. Miyagawa (talk) 07:43, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "It was the first Olympic Games to take place for twelve years..." — "for" or "in"?
• London was the host city, not a host venue.
• "... hosted the the event in 1944." — Extra "the".
• "... had not yet formed a National Olympic Committee each" — No need for the "each". It's understandable that it's one NOC for both countries. In alternative, you can say "... formed their National Olympic Committees".
• Why such an extensive description of the medal design if it was in use since 1928 and would continue to be used for 20 years more?
• The caption of the medal table is quite big and wraps unnecessarily. Try to simplify it: wouldn't just "List of medal-winning nations/NOCs" suffice?
• Ref #10, which has the medal tables for all Summer Games, could become a general reference...
• Any reason for the general reference link pointing to a specific page?

— Parutakupiu (talk) 22:22, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Have changed those points as suggested. Also moved #10 to the general refs, and fixed the book link so that it links to the index on google books rather than a specific page. Miyagawa (talk) 20:17, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• What about the description of the medal? I just think it takes quite a chunk of the lead and it's not even than relevant for the page in question. Parutakupiu (talk) 21:38, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• I've reduced it down to just a mention of the medals, with a citation being moved to the image caption to cover why the image is of a medal not in that range. Miyagawa (talk) 12:25, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Production: "he had previously ran the ninth season". "ran" – "run"?
• "to develop Futurama, where he served...". Since Futurama isn't a place, a substitute should be found for "where".
• Broadcast and ratings: "'The Wizard of Evergreen Terrace' was the official season premiere of the tenth season." The use of "season" is redundant, don't you think? Try removing the first one.
• Critical reception: In the Chris Barsanti quote, change the spaced em dashes to unspaced, or make them spaced en dashes (the smaller ones). We are allowed to make reasonable style adjustments in quotes, after all.
• Similarly, in the Brian Tallerico quote, there a year range (3-7) that could use an en dash.
• In that same quote, which reads at the end, "than most [other] show's best years", double-check the source to see if it has the apostrophe in that spot. Seems like it should be at the end of the word.
  • This is a mistake by the source. Should I include a "[sic]"? Theleftorium ^(talk) 19:16, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • That sounds like a good solution. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 16:08, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Done. Theleftorium ^(talk) 17:59, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Episode 14: "Homer manages to destroy to canister at...". Second "to" should be "the".
• Episode 17: What does "excite their lives" mean? Maybe it would be better as "add excitement to their lives" or something.
• Episode 19: "However, when Homer makes new art pieces for a show called 'Art in America' that is similar to his first piece". "is" → "are". This is because the pieces are a plural element.
• Episode 20: Extra word in "of hosting the the Olympics...".
• "but the springs that Homer flushed down the toilet out onto the bottom of the sea causes the boat...". "causes" → "cause".
• Episode 21: Typo in "costumer".
• Toward the end of this summary, "everyday" should be two words in this context, I believe.
• Not sure about having two non-free images. The second one doesn't seem to have much purpose, since there's already one DVD package picture.

• In references that have a page range, the p. should be pp. The ones I see that need an adjustment are 1, 49, 51, 53, 55, 57, 60, 63, and 65. If you're using templates, just change the page= parameter to pages= and that will fix it. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 18:38, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks a lot for the comments! Much appreciated. :) I've fixed all issues except for the one I replied to. Theleftorium ^(talk) 19:16, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Still see a p. in ref 51 that should be pp., but it looks like you got the rest of them. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 20:46, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Fixed! Theleftorium ^(talk) 20:52, 18 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "The Michigan Daily's Passman did not only have negative things to say about the tenth season in his review." this sentence is a bit confusing to me when read along with the one after; not sure what it's really trying to say.

Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 18:19, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Passman is quoted earlier in the section (I'm not sure if you know that), so that's why the sentence is included. I could delete it if you want. Theleftorium ^(talk) 19:23, 4 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  Removing isn't necessary, but I would feel more comfortable if the two Daily sentences came after each other. They're so far apart currently that I (obviously) forgot that Passman had already appeared in the article. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:10, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  Done! :) Theleftorium ^(talk) 20:19, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Why is "Season" capitalised in two places in the infobox?
  • Fixed. Theleftorium ^(talk) 20:09, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• "their salaries" whose? Fox or Simpsons?
  • Fixed. Theleftorium ^(talk) 20:09, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• "The tenth season was the second season that..." not sure you need the second "season" in that sentence.
  • Fixed. Theleftorium ^(talk) 20:09, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• " since several years back," - "for several years,"
  • Fixed. Theleftorium ^(talk) 20:09, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• " a large amount of " -> "a number of"
  • Fixed. Theleftorium ^(talk) 20:09, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• " 8:00 p.m." - this needs a non-breaking space between the number and the p.m. Check the rest of the article.
  • How exactly do you do this? Theleftorium ^(talk) 20:09, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• "An op-ed" what's an op-ed?
  • Added a wikilink. Theleftorium ^(talk) 20:09, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• No spaced hyphens in the reference titles please (ref 19 e.g.).
  • Not sure how to fix this either? Theleftorium ^(talk) 20:09, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 20:32, 7 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Thanks for the review! :) Theleftorium ^(talk) 20:09, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Lead image caption needs a "and" or something after "1961," to read properly.\
  • How so? If it's broken down, it's properly modified the subject three times: "Robin Roberts pitched for the Phillies from 1948 to 1961", "Robin Roberts was inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame and the Philadelphia Baseball Wall of Fame", and "Robin Roberts had his number 36 retired by the team". I don't think it needs to say "Roberts pitched... and was inducted... and had his number...". — KV5 • Talk • 18:27, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fair enough, I wasn't reading it properly. Soz. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:06, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• " 3739 1⁄3" -> 3,739 1⁄3
  • MOS:NUM#Delimiting: "Numbers with four digits to the left of the decimal point may or may not be delimited". — KV5 • Talk • 18:27, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • There is no decimal point there, just an ugly fraction..! The Rambling Man (talk) 19:06, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes, and the {{frac}} template will not generate the proper mixed number with a comma in it. — KV5 • Talk • 21:48, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• John Russell in the caption is a dab link.
  • Sigh, no one tells me when they change things. Done. — KV5 • Talk • 18:27, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Just noticed, in the key, why does the hash note have a full stop when the Year note doesn't? They both read complete to me...
  • Good call. Done. — KV5 • Talk • 18:27, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Arthur Rhodes' caption is missing the beginning of it!
  • Alt glitch. Done. — KV5 • Talk • 18:27, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• What's a "walk-off"? Link?
  • I linked walk-off, but the problem is that it redirects to walk-off home run, which is only one specific type of walk-off. This particular walk-off was an infield single, about as far as you get from a home run. So I made a section link to the section that discusses other types of walk-off hits (I'll have to re-evaluate that article at some point). — KV5 • Talk • 18:27, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 18:06, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "Robin Roberts, who won 20 games during the 1950 season as the ace of the Whiz Kids" this sentence confused me as a non baseball aficionado. I have no idea what an ace is or who or what the whiz kids were. I would elaborate slightly those is clearer for those unfamiliar with baseball.
  • That's why the links. I could change it to say "ace pitcher", but explicating the Whiz Kids is outside this list's scope. — KV5 • Talk • 00:52, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• "during his career, the right-hander won 234 games and lost 199," the right hander bit troubles me, I now what it refers to but I can't tell from the statistics what his role on the was.that Was that the handed he batted with? pitched with? His position needs clarifying
  • Changing to "ace pitcher" would clarify his position, so that seems like the best solution and I've implemented it. — KV5 • Talk • 00:52, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Apart from these two quibbles the list is great, well done NapHit (talk) 22:14, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• There's a spare parenthesis mark at the end of the first paragraph.
• Music selection: "due in part to the nature of the album which is meant to be listened as a whole". Needs "to" after "listened", I think.
• "This led the team to also including 21st Century Breakdown". Either make "including" into "include" or change the sentence to something like "This led to the team also including 21st Century Breakdown".
• Reference 1 is missing a publisher, which is usually at the front of a press release citation. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:49, 26 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for the review, these should all be fixed. –Drilnoth (T/C) 12:51, 26 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "The game... The game..." reads poorly to me.
• "With these 6 downloadable songs" -> six.
• "Harmonix'"-> "Harmonix's"
• " earliest Green Day albums" earlier? Only one can be earliest.
• " Due to how downloadable songs are incorporated .." -> "As a result of the number of downloadable songs incorporated..."
• Why is Dec. abbreviated in the release date?

The Rambling Man (talk) 19:01, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• All fixed with this edit, although I used a different wording for #4. The abbreviation is to be consistent with the release dates in Complete list of downloadable songs for the Rock Band series, but can be changed if wanted. –Drilnoth (T/C) 13:00, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• The tables currently fail WP:ACCESS, see MOS:DTT for information on how to fix this.

Other than this it looks good. NapHit (talk) 22:59, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Colscope added. Rowscope not added because there isn't really a column which serves as a row header. –Drilnoth (T/C) 23:04, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Put the rowscope in the cells that list the songs. NapHit (talk) 18:16, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, done. Now, I understand a bit about web accessibility (I'm a web developer, and have read numerous articles about the topic and implemented a fair number of simple accessibility things), but I do have a question: Why is the song name a header? I'd consider it to be row data. Sure, it is unique to each song, but it still seems to me like normal information and not a special "header". Anyways, I had to do a whole bunch of code-wrangling so that the rowscopes didn't mess up the table appearance (why isn't there a class which does that better than "plainrowheaders" anyway?), but it is done. Thanks for the review –Drilnoth (T/C) 21:28, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think it has something to do with indicating what parts of the table are rows or something. The song name is row data, its just that its the most relevant to the title of the article. I think it needs to be done to indicate that they are rows or something like that I don't really understand it myself. I agree with the plainrowheaders class, it is a pain, but I'm not aware of anything better unfortunately.

• Is there really a need to disambiguate the title with (film) here?

• Perhaps not, but considering there are countless adaptations, I wanted to help the reader differentiate. You think I should remove it? Ruby2010 comment! 16:07, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "Sensibilitys approval " one too many hyphen's here.

• Fixed Ruby2010 comment! 16:07, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• How do you know you got every single nomination/award?

• Obviously it would be impossible to know every single award for something. However, the article includes all I have been able to find online, which are surely the most major and recognized accolades out there. Ruby2010 comment! 16:07, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• We usually expect to see PDF for PDF links.

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 16:07, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• The awards database links are just general web links, not specifically referencing what you need them to.

The Rambling Man (talk) 15:01, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Not quite sure what you're talking about here. Each award listed is for the most part cited directly from their respective award websites. For instance, the Academy Awards are cited at the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences's website. What better source than the awards themselves? Correct me if you meant something else. Thanks, Ruby2010 comment! 19:15, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• E.g. ref 19 which just links to the database page of BAFTA, not the page on BAFTA's website which cites your claim. That's all. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:37, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• That BAFTA link pulls up the awards archive for 1995, which lists all the awards and noms Sense received at their ceremony. I'm not sure how citing the website can be done any more clearer than that. Thanks, Ruby2010 comment! 20:46, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• I do beg your pardon. You are quite right! The Rambling Man (talk) 21:50, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "ultimately coming away three awards" needs a "with" added to it.

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 01:46, 1 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Italics needed for Evening Standard.

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 01:46, 1 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• I see 61 nominations in the lead and 60 in the infobox.

• Done Ruby2010 comment! 01:46, 1 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• At the last awards nomination I asked for a note saying that the day links go to articles on the awards ceremonies. I'd like to see that here as well, and for such a note to become a standard for these nominations. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 01:21, 1 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Sorry, could you rephrase? Not sure if you're referring to my last FLC, or someone else's. Also, what is a day link? Apologies for the confusion. Ruby2010 comment! 01:46, 1 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • The FLC I was talking about was this one. It's just that the date of ceremony links are much more valuable to the reader than they appear at first, and a note would help clarify this. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 11:11, 1 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Done. Ruby2010 comment! 04:09, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• As someone who does not know the intricacies of baseball I have no idea what a reliever is this needs clarification: "Only five relievers"

• Relief pitcher was already linked earlier in the article. Added a parenthetical note that reliever = relief pitcher. Staxringold _talk^contribs 14:29, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "Eligibility requires that a player has "been retired five seasons" or deceased for at least 6 months." - I assume you're referring to inclusion to the hall of fame but as its not made explicit its unclear.

• Fixed. Staxringold _talk^contribs 14:29, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• The table does not meet WP:ACCESS see Data tables tutorial

• Crud, apologies, forgot about this. I'll get right on it. Staxringold _talk^contribs 14:29, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• There we go, fixed. Staxringold _talk^contribs 15:48, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• The alignment in the tables is a bit confusing. I thought it was common practice for numbers to be centrally aligned and names and dates and a like to be aligned to the left. Any reason why everything is aligned centrally?

• No particular reason. Simply left the table with no alignment parameters, which makes it look like this. Many baseball lists follow this style, such as 500 home run club. Staxringold _talk^contribs 14:29, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Do we need to have the number of saves the pitchers made in 2011 in brackets. I'm not sure its relevant to the list as a whole, seeing as it will be removed when the 2011 season ends I don't see the point in having it.

• This is incredibly common for any career counting statistic list that includes active players. Yes it'll be removed after 2011, but it will simply be replaced by 2012 figures. It tells you how actively a player labeled as "active" is actually contributing to their save total. IE Isringhausen and Cordero are only 15 saves apart, that seems close if you simply look at save count. But by including the seasonal total you get the additional information that Cordero is still posting strong totals while Isringhausen only has 7. Staxringold _talk^contribs 14:29, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• The two general refs need to be formatted properly and provide an accessdate.

• Done. Staxringold _talk^contribs 14:29, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm not sure bibliography is the correct term to use for the sources. Bibliography to me refers to the usage of books, and as there none used I don't think its appropriate. I think specific would be a better heading.

• Agreed... That's exactly the title I generally use, dunno where Bib came from. Staxringold _talk^contribs 14:29, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• The heading on the 300 saves club template needs the s removing to be in line with this the name of the page.

• Done. Staxringold _talk^contribs 14:29, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• ref 2 needs a publication date
• ref 3 needs a publication date and author
• ref 22 needs an author
• ref 28 needs a publication date

• Replaced with far better citation. Staxringold _talk^contribs 14:29, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• ref 26 is not formatted properly
• ref 8 needs associated press as publisher

• It's listed already, as "Agency". Staxringold _talk^contribs 14:29, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• ref 18 needs an author
• The references have two differing date formats you need to be consistent and pick one.

• Fixed all these ref comments. Muboshgu added refs, which was fantastic, but used his formatting style. Staxringold _talk^contribs 14:29, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

NapHit (talk) 13:41, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "and was later adopted" don't think you need later since you go on to say "in 1969".
• " where applicable." what does this mean?
• "23 players in .." avoid starting sentences with numbers so perhaps "In total, 23 players..."?

Otherwise splendid work. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:41, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Well thank you. Fixed #1 and 3, "Where applicable" means it was applied backwards to pitchers who had situations that would have been saves had that situation been called a save back then. IE Hoyt Wilhelm pitched in a game on September 20, 1960, 9 years before the save became official. However the statistics record him as earning a save for pitching a scoreless 9th inning with a 1 run lead. Staxringold _talk^contribs 21:21, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "by entering in the ninth inning of a game in which his team is winning by three or fewer runs and finishes the game without losing the lead." For the flow of the sentence to work, "finishes" needs to be "finishing".

• Fixed. Staxringold _talk^contribs 23:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Is anything citing the most common method of earning a save? I don't see this in either of the following references.

• Cite added. It's super annoying to find cites for things so fundamental to the modern game. Staxringold _talk^contribs 23:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• I see a serial comma after Bruce Sutter, but none after John Franco earlier. I don't care whether they have the comma or not, but this should be consistent in the lead.

• Added. Staxringold _talk^contribs 23:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• All caps should be removed from ref 30. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 21:23, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Fixed. Staxringold _talk^contribs 23:25, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from KV5

• "The first recorded baseball event in Australia occurred in Melbourne, Victoria in 1857, though accounts vary as to the details, including whether it was a single game or a series of three games, between teams from Collingwood and Richmond." - this seems a bit like a run-on to me; a change in punctuation or wording might help it. ex: The first recorded baseball event in Australia occurred in Melbourne, Victoria in 1857—though accounts vary as to the details, including whether it was a single game or a series of three games—between teams from Collingwood and Richmond. or The first recorded baseball event in Australia occurred in Melbourne, Victoria in 1857 between teams from Collingwood and Richmond, though accounts vary as to the details, including whether it was a single game or a series of three games.

 Done You might want to re-check it. I split it into separate sentences, but does seem better now.

• Milwaukee Brewers linked in lead at second occurrence, not first; Yankees not linked at all.

 Done

• "League Champions" - un-capitalize

 Done

• "the Major Leagues" - likewise; "Major League Baseball" is a proper not but "the major leagues" is not.

 Done

• "in an MLB game," no comma necessary

 Done

• Tables need to be adjusted to meet WP:ACCESS requirements; see MOS:DTT for instructions. Scopes, row/col headers, captions needed.
• When you have multiple positions, a non-breaking space is needed before each slash, so "2B / 3B" instead of "2B / 3B"

 Done

• "Denotes played in the 2011 season." - remove full stop/period

 Done

• "Quinn acted as player/manager" - player-manager should be linked, and is usually written with a hyphen

 Done

• Remove full stop/period from Graeme Lloyd's caption, as it's not a complete sentence

 Done

• The sandwiching of a table between images distresses me. Perhaps one or two images could be moved alongside the main table.

 Done

• Can't use tooltips per WP:ACCESS

 Done

• Bold in the table violates MOS:BOLD, and no indication is given anywhere as to what it means (I know it's championships but uninitiated readers won't).

 Done

• In reference section, use semi-colon headers to separate groups of references rather than plain text.

 Done

• A link to List of countries with their first Major League Baseball player wouldn't be amiss somewhere in this article... a see-also, somewhere in the lead... just a suggestion. I don't really like that article's title but no one's ever been able to come up with something better. — KV5 • Talk • 01:25, 22 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

 Done

I think I've covered everything you've brought up. (It is getting late here so I may have missed something or messed something else up.) If there is anything else, let me know and I'll do what I can. Also, thanks for taking the time to do the review.  Afaber012  (talk)  13:07, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

@KV5 - shouldn't the first column of the tables have a different color background, as with the top row per WP:ACCESS? PumpkinSky talk 00:19, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See above: "Tables need to be adjusted to meet WP:ACCESS requirements; see MOS:DTT for instructions. Scopes, row/col headers, captions needed." — KV5 • Talk • 11:17, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

FRom what I understand, it's still not there, the left column is the same background as the others. See FL List of stutterers to see what I mean.PumpkinSky talk 20:52, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, I know it's not there right now, but I did address it as needing to be corrected. I know what you are trying to say. — KV5 • Talk • 22:15, 23 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If what you're both saying is "the names of the players in both of the tables should actually be row headers rather than normal cells", I'm not sure I agree. At the end of the day, If it's what's needed to get the list over the line, then fair enough, but I have reasons for thinking it should stay as is. Firstly, I would tend to use that sort of format in circumstances where the table could be turned into a graph of some sort covering all information presented. That's not really the case here. Put it another way: if there was an extra column at the beginning of the table along the lines of "Order of appearance" and then listed "1st", "2nd", "3rd", etc, I doubt that would be an appropriate header, though it would be a reasonable piece of information to have in the table. Secondly, there are examples on the MOS:DTT page that do not have row headers, as there are examples on the W3C site the same way.

Now I've come across something that might bridge the gap that would seem to cover the accessibility issue without changing the appearance. The "scope" attribute can be applied to a table cell as well as to a header. If I put that in to the tables, would you guys be happy with that?  Afaber012  (talk)  09:39, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The data table tutorial might not show an example list with all the names as row headers, but it does say that they are required: WP:ACCESS#Data tables notes the three required elements as captions, row and column headers, and scope of headers. The DTT is not an all-inclusive list of what can be created, as you obviously are aware; it is a guide to how the ACCESS guidelines can be implemented. So, in short, yes, I do think that it needs to be put in. — KV5 • Talk • 11:00, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's now done. I was flipping back and forth after I posted before about whether or not they should be headers, and after sleeping on it I agree. I still think the points I raised above are valid, and that simply turning the first column of cells into headers should not be done. Sometimes it will work, sometimes the table will need re-working, but other times - as shown in the "Good example of headers structure" in MOS:DTT it's not necessary.  Afaber012  (talk)  01:30, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm sure the graph is interesting but on my screen (a) I have no idea what it's saying or (b) what the caption is telling me to expect and (c) it's squashing the text between it and the other lead image.

 Done I think. I've adjusted its position and its caption: hopefully that makes it clearer. In case its still unclear, it shows the number of Australians who played in any one season, eg in 2008, 8 Aussies played in the majors. So it shows the general trend of a growing Australian participation.

I still can't see the captions on the axes. And it's still squashing text between itself and the other lead image. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:33, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Moved it again, this time to float on the right, so the text squashing should be gone. I also updated the graphic itself, so the text is axis labels are larger, the columns are wider, closer together and alternately coloured to (hopefully) make it easier to see which is which, and removed the extra white space around it that I hadn't realised was there until now.  Afaber012  (talk)  13:35, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Both images have a full stop which isn't necessary as it's not a complete sentence.

 Done

• General sources need en-dashes not hyphens in the title per WP:DASH.

 Done

• "occurred in" took place in.

 Done

• "One common detail apart from the teams involved " hang on, you said the thing that was in question was the format of the game, not the teams involved...

 Done I think. I may have created another problem with the fix.

• "the 2011 Major League Baseball season, 29 Australians have played in at least one Major League Baseball (MLB) game." abbreviate MLB first time.

 Done

• Don't abbreviate IBAF if you use the abbreviation.

 Done I think you meant "... if you don't use ..."

• Should "short stop" be "shortstop" or is that OzEng?

 Done It gets used both with and without the space, even in "proper" use by the various Oz authorities, so removed the space.

• Debut Team->Debut team. etc. See Game too.

 Done

• Ref -> Ref(s).

 Done

• Captions aren't particularly informative.

 Done I've expanded the name-only captions. Not sure if the others need work (or if that's what you were after for the one's I've changed).

Much better. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:33, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 21:20, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a crack at your points, but there are a couple that I might need more feedback on.  Afaber012  (talk)  23:46, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Comma would be good after Bruce Bochy in the lead.

 Done

• Also would be nice to link the Yankees in the lead, if they aren't already (I didn't notice a link).

 Done Whoops! This one was from KV5 and got lost in the shuffle.

• Caption for the graph could use a period at the end.

You sure? I thought it was a (long) sentence fragment so shouldn't have one, like the others that also don't have periods at the end.

It is a fragment. — KV5 • Talk • 11:11, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Note 1: "Denotes played in the 2011 season" doesn't strike me as the best grammatical sentence in the world. How about "Denotes that the player was active in the 2011 season" or something?

 Done I changed it to "Denotes that the player played at least one game in the 2011 season"

• The general references should be formatted like regular citations, not like external links, which they currently appear to be. Publisher, access date etc. are still needed for general refs.

 Done

• Who runs the Flintoff & Dunn website, and is it a reliable source? This is important since it is a general reference.

Simply put I'd describe them as the Australian equivalent of Baseball-Reference. They're Media Partners of the Australian Baseball League, and as part of that agreement made their database available to the league for player profiles/etc in the league's own material. They've also published a number of books that essentially summarized the previous season of the old ABL, IBLA, or Claxton Shield, whichever format had been used.

Giants2008 (27 and counting) 23:26, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think I've covered off everything now, assuming you approve of the reliability/etc of the general source. What are your thoughts on the list now?  Afaber012  (talk)  06:58, 2 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "Most of the players who have won" have is redundant as the award is no longer in existence

Fixed. When you say redundant, I think you mean passive Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 15:33, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "given out nineteen times" I think this could be worded better, presented maybe? something along those lines

Given or given out seems to be what is used in similar articles, such as the NBA Sixth Man Award Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 15:33, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "David Robinson has won five IBM Awards, Charles Barkley has earned three, and Michael Jordan and Shaquille O'Neal have won two each." again all the has and have need removing as the award no longer exists

Fixed

• "all also won NBA Most Valuable Player" remove all

Fixed

• "additionally won both awards in the same season" remove additionally

Fixed

• "1999-2000 and 2000-2001 NBA seasons" you need to use endashes instead of hyphens and I would provide a link to the relevant season articles.

Fixed

• "The award is given to the player with the highest point total" change is to was and should probably change stands for stood in the sentence before

Fixed the one in quotes; stand/stood is debatable as it could be referencing as you read it now, not just as when the award was given. Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 15:33, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Is there any way to shorten the width of the formula it stretches the screen on my laptop and I imagine it would do the same for most users.

I abbreviated player to plyr and points to PTS, and it fits on mine Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 15:33, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• The images need alt text and the you need to include a caption for the table and scope row to bring the table up to WP:ACCESS standards see MOS:DTT for more info

Added caption, scoperow, and alttext Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 15:33, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For the alt text you need to describe the image not simply put the name of the person who is in the image. Its for people who are unable to see images, therefore having the alt text as simply Charles Barkley is not going to help them picture the image. Plus the years in the table need aligning centrally. NapHit (talk) 16:32, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have added that Barkley and Robinson are head shots, and that Duncan's picture is of him playing basketball (I would have had a headshot for him as well, but I couldn't find one). This is similar to the captions at NBA Most Valuable Player Award and J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award. With regard to center-aligned, row scope HAS been turned on for each column, and so has plainrowheaders, so it's still left. The aforementioned FLs have left-aligned year columns, so I believe the precedent is for left-aligned columns throughout the table. In addition, considering the horizontal size of the column, being left-, center- or right-aligned probably doesn't make much of the difference. But, if you so desire, I can turn off plainrowheaders. Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 18:34, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I can't find a guideline on alignment so I'd just leave it as it is. Personally I would the seasons to be centrally aligned but its just that a preference. NapHit (talk) 21:13, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I checked with TRM...there apparently isn't one Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 21:54, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Also don't force the size of the images, inputting upright should instead of 150px should be fine

Fixed

• refs 2 to 5 need properly formatting a publisher and work fields need to be provided

Added that Basketball-Reference.com is the work; Sports Reference LLC is the Publisher Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 15:33, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• ref 6 the page should be p instead of pp as your only using one page

Fixed

• ref 7 redirects to the nba homepage

Changed out the reference Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 15:33, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

NapHit (talk) 13:09, 24 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Just one more issue before I support, this sentence: "meant to determine which player was most valuable to his team" would indicate that every player from every team gets the award, as that's the way it reads to me. I would clarify that the person with the best score or whatever the formula churned out is the recipient of the award. NapHit (talk) 21:13, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I reworded it to "...meant to determine which player had the best season in the NBA that year", if that doesn't work, I'll probably just toss the clause altogether. I notice that the NBA MVP lacks a descriptive clause. The best score clause is mentioned in the formula section, but can be moved to the lead if need be Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 21:54, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Explain NBA before you use the abbreviation.

Fixed. Linked and un-acronymed Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 16:54, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge the second and third sentences because it reads clunky right now, "company IBM. It was " -> "company IBM and was "

Fixed Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 16:54, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• " forwards or centers; many finished near the top in rebounding " suitable links here would be useful for non-basketball fans.]

Fixed Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 16:54, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "The award was given out nineteen times," -> "The award was presented nineteen.."

As noted before, "given out" seems to be the prevailing phraseology among NBA Award Featured Lists, but I will change to presented if a compelling reason for bucking the trend is given Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 16:54, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "Detroit Pistons. [2]" remove the space. Ditto on the next time you use [2].

Fixed

• "Of IBM Award winners eligible for the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame, all have been inducted" reverse this. "All IBM Award winners are..."

Rephrased somewhat. I can't just say "All IBM Award winners are in the Hall of Fame" because four are either still active or haven't been retired long enough to have been voted on Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 16:54, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Don't relink Magic.
• Or Duncan.

Fixed Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 16:54, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• "Hill and Duncan are the only winners currently playing in the NBA." ref please.

Fixed Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 16:54, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Formula is overwhelmingly large. Please reduce its size, or explain it another way.

Huge bucket of syrup. Prose won't work for this, because most people will get lost. It was smaller back when I got it DYKed when it wasn't in formula mode see here; we could go back to that, with the added explanation of what all that stuff means that I put in last week. Ideally, it could work if I split the top part onto two lines, but I dunno how to do that. It should be noted that the formula fits on Firefox, but not on IE Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 16:54, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Any chance you could make it a note, or move the section below the table, right now it's very off-putting where it's placed in the article. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:39, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I have moved the formula section below the table section, and am also putting the formula in a collapsed box that can be shown on click Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 17:54, 31 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Images should all be standard size (e.g. upright) and complete sentences in captions need full stops.

Periods have been added. Images already were upright. Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 16:54, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Be consistent with season formats between lead and table.

Fixed Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 16:54, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Duncan is US Virgin Islands so why is he listed as USA?

Another bucket of syrup. Duncan was born in the U.S. Virgin Islands. The U.S. Virgin Islands is part of the United States (therefore, Duncan is a U.S. citizen), but it has its own Olympic Committee, and sometimes its own basketball team. Duncan has never played for the USVI basketball team, though he did play for the U.S. national basketball team in 2004. In the NBA MVP table, the year Duncan won the MVP (which was also the year he won the IBM Award), he is listed as United States, but with a note (with two references) explaining his heritage. I have adapted that note for these purposes. Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 16:54, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Notes a and b are referenced where?

They were referenced in the prose section "These players have won MVPs...these players have won DPOYs", but I have copied the references for the notes as well Purplebackpack89≈≈≈≈ 16:54, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 20:59, 28 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]