"Other chapters supported the event by helping with participants’ travel and accommodation costs, as did the Wikimedia Foundation for its staff." Yes, and WMF also helped to sponsor several Wikimedia volunteers' travel and accommodation for the hackathon (as WMF also did last year for the Berlin event, and did to some extent in 2011 as well). Question: what does "the decision not to prioritise the grant-supported invitation of Wikimedia outsiders" refer to? Is there a specific set of people you're referring to, who currently do not contribute to Wikimedia projects but wanted grants to attend the event? Sumana Harihareswara, Wikimedia Foundation Engineering Community Manager (talk) 03:14, 30 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
(changed re. description of WMF sponsorship). Re: other points, there was some discussion of how aggressively the event would be marketed to people outside Wikimedia circles (in the general FOSS ecosphere), e.g. OSM, Mozilla, GNOME, with the conclusion that it would not be [aggressively marketed to those groups]. In any case, I can say from personal experience that I did not meet (m)any non-Wikimedians myself. - Jarry1250[Vacationneeded]10:20, 30 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Could you point to any of that discussion, please? I'm happy to respond to it, and to take it into consideration in advising on next year's event, if I can see people's requests, suggestions, etc. Yes, the yearly Wikimedia developers' meeting is traditionally a meeting of Wikimedia technical contributors -- an "inreach" event more than an "outreach" event -- and sometimes opportunities pop up for collaboration with other FLOSS communities, but yes, that hasn't been an emphasis in past years, and it wasn't an emphasis this year either. I will note that the yearly hackathon has, in recent years, expanded more to include not just MediaWiki coders but more bot and tool authors, sysadmins, template makers, testers, designers, researchers, gadget and user script maintainers, and so on.
I think the phrase "the grant-supported invitation of Wikimedia outsiders" is kind of confusing, now that I understand what you're talking about, because publicizing the event to people who are not currently Wikimedia contributors is a different matter from specifically subsidising their travel and accommodation. Hope that helps. And thanks for the fix regarding WMF sponsorship. Sumana Harihareswara, Wikimedia Foundation Engineering Community Manager (talk) 13:33, 30 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies for the late reply. I accept I may have been unclear here (it's a tricky area to be precise about), but basically I just wanted to capture your inreach/outreach event divergence (specifically, I was responding to Quim's discussion page post "After discussing with Sumana we agreed that this event is more of a Wikimedia-wide gathering than a real outreach event where we put a lot effort bringing newcomers"). - Jarry1250[Vacationneeded]14:23, 5 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It turns out the hostel does have smaller rooms available, but in order to use them you generally have to book about 6 months in advance. So next year, if the hackathon organizers use a hostel such as this one, WMF aims to offer its staffers the option of staying in those kinds of rooms at the hostel, so it's easier for everyone to mingle. Sumana Harihareswara, Wikimedia Foundation Engineering Community Manager (talk) 03:14, 30 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Interesting. Of course, the discussion (however justified) is not just about where the single rooms are, but also the decision to use single rooms at all. - Jarry1250[Vacationneeded]10:20, 30 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Right; you've probably seen this travel policy ("A single room with a private bath is the standard."), and I know not all Wikimedia community members like that part of the policy. I should note that a lot of WMF people stayed in two-person rooms or other accommodation (not single rooms) to save money, at the Amsterdam event, as well as at approximately every multiday Wikimedia event I've ever attended. Sumana Harihareswara, Wikimedia Foundation Engineering Community Manager (talk) 13:33, 30 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Any stats? Like, how many doubles vs. single and most common reasons to prefer a single (are they asked a reason?). --Nemo07:38, 31 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have any statistics on this. Given that it's policy to offer single rooms, I am reasonably sure the travel coodinator does not ask WMF staffers "why are you acting in accordance with the policy?" :-) My personal recollection is that, at Wikimania and at Berlin or Amsterdam hackathons or for other Wikimedia travel, most WMF personnel who attend share rooms with our colleagues. I have sometimes stayed in a hotel room by myself because of a lack of other women to share a room with. Sumana Harihareswara, Wikimedia Foundation Engineering Community Manager (talk) 15:49, 31 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have no problem with employees having single, en-suite rooms. That's also the Wikimedia-UK policy for staff and volunteers. Yet in Amsterdam I was sharing a hostel room, not for the first time on a WMUK sponsored trip (on others, I have had my own room). Obviously, I made the choice to accept that arrangement (and I am grateful that I had the opportunity to attend), but there does seem to be an inexplicable difference between policy and practice; and the decisions seem to be arbitrary. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits10:56, 31 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Andy, hi! Glad we got to chat in Amsterdam. I think I'm a little confused regarding the policy/practice difference that you see, since the travel policy (which I think you're referring to) is about "people required to travel on behalf of the WMF"; am I right in inferring that you think this should also apply to all volunteers choosing to travel for Wikimedia-related purposes, whether funded by WMF, chapters, or some other Wikimedia body?
The hackathon organizing committee this year consisted of some volunteers, some WMNL staff, some WMDE staff, and some WMF staff. I will probably be on the hackathon organizing committee again next year, and I will suggest we consider changing our approach: hosting subsidised volunteers in a hotel while keeping the budget manageable by reducing the number of people the committee subsidises. However, I will have to think a lot about what approach I would personally recommend; it's a tough question. Sumana Harihareswara, Wikimedia Foundation Engineering Community Manager (talk) 15:49, 31 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
While I don't really like having a double-standard for staff and volunteers, the hostel worked out great and it was a plus to share rooms with fellow Wikimedians. This was especially true because the event was at the hostel, so there was no better place to be. If I had to choose between more private rooms or more attendees, I'd pick more attendees every time. As for staff expectations/allowance for better accommodations, it's a trickier problem to justify. I think it comes down to the fact that staff are generally 'at work' during these events whereas volunteers are essentially on vacations. So volunteers come to expect that they might have less privacy and amenities, but then again, their job is not on the line to show up and be rested and ready. Case in point, I felt like working all night during the second day of the hackathon and sleeping through the morning sessions. I could do that, whereas I'm not sure that staff could. So that's one argument to justify differences. Ocaasit | c17:10, 31 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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