Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/2014-08-13/News and notes

Note: Due to MediaWiki:Spam-blacklist fucking up this page, I have had to break the {{high traffic}} template that links to the unmentionable site "change dot org". The wikitext of it is rendered below. jp×g 09:57, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

{{high traffic|date=18 August 2014|site=The Register|url=http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/08/18/class_war_wikipedias_workers_revolt_after_bourgeois_papershufflers_suspend_democracy/|small=|page=|linktext|afterlinktext|date2=22 August 2014|site2=Change.org|url2=http://www.change dot org/p/lila-tretikov-remove-new-superprotect-status-and-permit-wikipedia-communities-to-enact-current-software-decisions-uninhibited|page2=|...|date10=|site10=|page10=}}

One comment that seemed to sum up the mood of many in the German Wikipedia was this one, by longstanding German admin User:H-stt (my translation):

Frank [Schulenburg], too, is not looking at the real issues that the MV has ignited. The Foundation has a miserable cost / benefit ratio and for years now has spent millions on software development without producing anything that actually works. This is in large part due to the fact that decisions are made without consultation with the community. On the other hand, it has to do with the fact that people like Erik, Steven and Philippe were recruited from the community, but obviously have no experience in really getting a product "out the door" and completing a project successfully. It was a good idea to employ Rachel, so she can take care of the communication about software development. But unfortunately Erik has severely damaged her chances after less than two months.
My theory: The WMF isn't up to the job. Nobody who works there really understands and has a handle on software projects. This is evidenced by a horrific track record over many years. That the MV is rolled out even though it doesn't recognize many licence templates is a symptom. The underlying cause is that the MV is based on a framework that has not been validated. We see the same thing in what is really a very minor issue, the thumbnail display. The layout team wants to abolish the frame and replace it with more white space. That they have not thought of images that need a frame to really show the image (Japanese flag) is one thing. But the guys have deleted the "Zoom" icon in the thumb frame without replacement. Why? Because they have not thought about what function it might have. With image maps that icon is the only way to get to the image information and the licence info! None of them knew that. And none of them asked or tried to find out for themselves what the function of that icon was. It's the same with the MV. It reads the licence templates according to a microformat. So far so good. But this micro format is not universally distributed. Therefore, it should either have been rolled out only when everything was converted to that micro format and the millions of files had been migrated, or the MV should have used a more flexible model for reading information. But no, the thing has now been in development for XX months and has already cost Y million dollars, so it had to be rolled out now.
But it's not only software development. What's it like with user recruitment? How many millions have been invested in this over the past five years? Probably a two-digit number. And how many new authors were gained by it? Correct: practically zero. Why? Like Micha above I don't see the problem with the editor. Anyone who has the intrinsic motivation to contribute to the greatest free education project in human history will not be deterred by the editor. There are many other barriers that are more important (first and foremost the ability to prepare information appropriately, but I mention this only as an aside). So here, too, the Foundation mucks about, but has achieved exactly no demonstrable results.
Why is it all like that? Because the Foundation (and in a similar way but to a lesser extent also WMDE) has grown much too fast. The unlimited money supply from the fundraising campaigns shows the tremendous enthusiasm of our readers, but it has seduced people into hiring staff without first agreeing on goals and methods. This excessive staff and bureaucracy then very quickly became estranged from its base, the community, and is now fighting for self-preservation. As far as content is concerned, they have nothing to show, so they have to use force. Best, --h-stt? 16:17, 16 August 2014 (CEST)

Link to the German original. (I'm dropping H-stt a link to this page on his German talk page, so if he is unhappy with any part of my translation of his post, he'll be able to let me know.) --Andreas JN466 02:25, 18 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • Seems weird they would strong arm like that. CRRaysHead90 | #RaysUp 02:32, 18 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • Nothing weird about it, although I must say that its not really a smart move on one hand. On the other, there was numerous of cases (in other language Wikipedias) where admins took too many liberties, and would end up ignoring external links being used as refs (at least I saw it on one article in Russian Wikipedia). However, I never use any of the editors even Mobile Edit one, so I am neutral when it comes to such discussions.--Mishae (talk) 05:30, 18 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Wikimedia Foundation staff members have now been granted superpowers that would allow them to override community consensus. The new protection level came as a response to attempts of German Wikipedia administrators to implement a community consensus on the new Media Viewer. "Superprotect" is a level above full protection, and prevents edits by administrators. Oh no.--Seonookim (What I've done so far) (I'm busy here) (Talk with me) 06:16, 18 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to add that for many in the German community this is not simply a case about some new piece of software, but rather about whether the foundation may interfere with the community's own affairs like this. Users justly claim to have a say in how the wiki is run. Many users and sysops have gone inactive to protest against this affair. The much-needed de:user:GiftBot also has gone on strike. The red box there says: Media Viewer must be done away! ;) We are Wikipedia! Give us back our autonomy! Foundation fails to find a suitable response to all this because it focuses on the process of software development only, but does not tackle the psychological aspect.--Aschmidt (talk) 08:45, 18 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • I also often feel like some parts of WMF staff are totally detached from the community. E.g. None of the roughly 10 members of the Analytics team have found the time to answer my simple question on their talk page mw:Talk:Analytics#Question in over a year. And there will be no answer coming soon, because none of them read the signpost in my estimation. Things like that are extremely frustrating and show how WMF is not willing to put in the same effort as the community is putting into Wikipedia. The best solution would be to decentralize WMF so that there would be more competition. If WMF-DE is better at running Wikipedia than WMF, then the money should go to WMF-DE. And they should be able to hire developers that interact with the community and develop Wikipedia, in a way that the community sees fit. -Tobias1984 (talk) 10:25, 18 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • It is a cultural problem. For example the images used in the Visual Identity Guidelines used the wrong colours. This was pointed out to the staff member by a volunteer, the staff member said that it was to much effort to correct them. Some time later I fixed them on Commons, (it did not take long), and thought no more of it. I later received a stiffly worded talk page message about it, instead of a thank you note! And of course I could not engage with the staffer on foundation wiki, because it is a closed wiki (and the volunteers that ran it have been desysopped, while staff that have never edited an article - and have no possible need for them - get powers, possibly super-powers on all the projects). This malaise runs deep, and needs careful resolution over a period of time. But stepping back from confrontation is the first step. All the best: Rich Farmbrough13:05, 18 August 2014 (UTC).